Fawning Season Information

[T.R.O.]

Hello, I have found this article by Dr. Cliff Shipley with the U of I and its a very informative article on raising fawns. You can find it on ildfa.com as well. I would like to hear everyones opinions on the article on what they agree with or disagree with and start a great informative forum to help out the farmers that are still learning the best ways to take care of fawns. I am going to be bottle feeding 6-8 this year and have never done that many so anyone that has tips and hints and how-tos I would greatly appreciate it. Everyone has there own ways of doing things so hopefully we can throw them all out here and everyone can learn a few things on how to make fawning more successful and less stressful. If you know of any other articles that will help us out that owuld be great as well. Thanks in advance!!

[Robbie]

Where was a guide like this when I started out? This would have been a great help, although I do things a little differently now, it is a great tool for someone just starting off.

My main differences:
I don't cut feedings, I increase and decrease the amount as they grow and start to wean, but still offer a bottle ever 4-5 hours, from 6am to midnight, until weaned (most people cut feedings, I have chosen not to in my program). I agree with and follow the 20% body weight rule, and if a fawn is sick and not on the bottle, I make it up with lactated ringers SQ to ensure proper hydration and kidney function until I get them turned around and back on the bottle. Pedialyte is good in that circumstance, and is easier on a sour belly than milk.

I use Target Probiotics Fawn Paste at birth, and at 24 hours old, and am able to not use e-colizer or anything else at that point. I agree with and use the C&D anti-toxin, especially if I don't know the vaccination history of the doe.

I pull fawns at about 36 hours, and have never had any trouble getting them to take a bottle within the first 4-12 hours I have them.

I think this is a great guide. Everyone has their own take on how to do it, and I agree with Dr. Shipley, if your program works, stick with it.

[B_Whitetails]

Robbie,
I was wondering what nipples you are using? Let us know. Thanks Drew

[Robbie]

Drew - I use regular baby nipples. I tried the Pritchard's, and didn't feel like there was a significant difference, and as the fawns got bigger and started to drink more/faster, I was having trouble switching nipples on them, they didn't want to change over to baby nipples once they were used to the others. In a situation with a tripplet/runt, or really tiny fawn, I'll start with the Prit. as it seems to work better for their tiny mouths.

I watch the nipples closely, the fawns will start to knaw on them, and then can aspirate milk, so they get checked every feeding and thrown out if there is any damage that would allow milk to flow too fast.

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

Robbie, How long have you been using the Target probiotics? We are looking into using it this year with our fawns and are wanting to get some feedback from a few that have used it. Both pro and cons of use. Thanks

[Robbie]

I started using Target 2 years ago. It has changed my program for fawns and adult deer completely. Brad would want to start digging a hole when a fawn quit eating, and these products have proven to be miracle workers. I can turn around fawns that would never have made it before. We never knock down any of our deer without a tube of Electromax on hand. I just can't say enough about these products.

I am such a believer, that I am now a rep for them. Let me know if you have questions or if you want to give any of it a try.

[redwood_river_whitetails]

Robbie-

Been looking at using the Target Probiotics. Last year used First Fawn Paste. Is the Target Probiotics a similar product?

[Neeby]

Robbie
Do you use regular childrens pedialyte on a sick fawn? how much do you give? any preffered flavor or just plain?

Thanks Neeby

[Rustyblaster]

Last year was my first and only experience feeding fawns but I had problems getting a baby nipple to penatrate far enough back to stimulate the natural sucking reflex. I ended up using the regular old black rubber goat nipples that tightly slide over a pop bottle top. They are hard to get milk out of but after fawns got use to sucking I ended up modifying the opening with a pair of scissors. I never had trouble with fawns drinking too fast but maybe I was just lucky. It just always seemed like they could not get it fast enough!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Sometimes if you use the web of you hand to direct them to the nipple... it is like in the moms leg area and leads and stimulates them to suck.
(Some like it under and some like over their mouth)

[ddwhitetails]

Pritchard nipples work great!! fit on any pop bottle!!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I use them most of the time, but dollar store bottles with the clear nipples work better on some fawn.
Each fawn is different...Then there's Fallow deer...Wow

[virgil]

Where do you get this target probiotics product.

[Robbie]

Susan - I haven't used First Fawn, so I can't give a true comparison. Target Fawn Paste has literally turned my program up a notch, or three. I can't say enough good about it. I use it on every fawn born, whether I am going to pull and raise or not. My bottle babies also get a scoop of Special Blend 12 in 2 bottles a day. W-80 if they show any sign of scour or other physical symptom indicating a problem on the horizon. I re-treat with 5 grams fawn paste anytime I suspect anything might be thinking about going wrong. You can't overdo good probiotics.

Neeby - I use both, plain and flavored PL, depending on the situation. If a fawn comes completely off the bottle, I use plain or grape PL and Target Blend W-80 as a drench, if they won't suck. Once they are showing interest in the bottle again, I use plain PL with milk to ease them back onto the milk, so their stomach can adjust. Just depends on what the circumstances are at the time.

[Robbie]

Virgil - you can call me and order, I'll have it shipped straight to you.

[T.R.O.]

Sounds like we need more "Robbies" out there. You have taught me more already than what my vet has in 4 years!! Would you mind posting some prices on here on the most important necessities like the probiotics and how many tubes youll go through each year and just kind of get a ball park range of how much medication and money we are looking at? I dont want to sound stupid but we have never given our fawns any medications at birth or along the way. This is due to a vet that doesnt know anything about deer when we call and ask questions. We havent had problems with them but Im positive they would look healthier and bigger if they had more nutrients. Its just been a lack of knowledge and we learn as we go. Hopefully we continue to have great forums such as this one that can help out so many people. Thanks for all the help everyone.
Dr. Shipley states in his article, "The shortest pencil is better than the longest memory!" I cant write fast enough keeping up with all this information! ITS GREAT THANKS ALOT!!

[Robbie]

TRO - thanks for the kind words, but let me tell you - I had never heard the word "probiotics" 4 years ago. My vets weren't any help either, and that's when I started going right to the source - other deer breeders and goat ranchers. It is a forum like this that helps us get the word out from our hands-on experiences. My lessons came at a very high price, I lost a lot of fawns along the way, because I didn't know how to help them. I decided to take it upon myself to learn everything I could from everybody out there - even if the lesson was what not to do. Communication and research - hours and hours of it. I am not a vet, I am no different than anyone else out there trying to do the best I can by these animals. If I can help someone, great. But please know, I still have a lot to learn, too.

You can find more information and prices at www.TargetProbiotics.com
I am happy to answer anyones questions or take your orders. Just drop me a note or give me a call.

[Reed68]

Go to jeffers.com and request a catolog. They have probios that you can mix into the formula and granules you can sprinkle on the feed for larger deer. They also have paste in several sizes of tubes. When a fawn goes off their formula, it usually means an upset stomach and we crush up half of a zantac and put in their bottle and by the next feeding whamo, back on the bottle. Just 2 more cents.

[Russell]

TRO and other ... you don't need to write all the good tips here unless you want to.

Go to Thread Tools at the top of the postings, click on Printable Version, and then use your browser print button to create a paper copy.

Easier and handier to use that trying to read off the screen. :D

We also have eight articles on raising cervid fawns and calves in our Deerfarmers.com Library (http://www.deer-library.com/artman/publish/cat_index_2.shtml).

And a great big THANKS to those who are taking time to share and help out their fellow farmers!

Russ

[Aaron_CCDR]

Michael,

Several farms have been using the Target products in the area. Most important one is the doe probiotics given while pregnant in my eyes. Farms that were losing a good deal of their fawns to E Coili and other various diseases have seen a drastic turn around and now their losses are few to none. The buck formula is supposed to be second to none but I cannot attest to that with any form of data. Expensive they are, but worth it.

[Fla deer mom]

thanks for the info about printing out a thread Russ. I was using a lot of colored ink printing out all the pictures along with their information until you told us about using THREAD TOOLS ! Cool...:)

[ER Whitetails]

How does Nutra Glo compare to Probiotics. Can you use them together. I know someone who says that they have had alot less sick deer since he has been using it.

[Robbie]

Aaron - we are using the Top Score Antler Growth top dress, and can definitely see a difference in our boys. They are putting on a lot more bone and muscle mass in general over their body, and our yearlings are pushing the biggest nubs we have ever had. I'll be able to tell you more in another month, but right now, I'd say it is doing its job.

[Aaron_CCDR]

Robbie, I look forward to seeing those antler growth pictures when they start booming. I can attest that the bucks that we have on it are definnately putting on some bone very early. But the genetic difference makes it hard to say for sure it is one thing or another.