Info needed on Ok-Mo Auction

[Stumpfworldclasswhitetail]

Need to know schedule of events and how to obtain an auction catalog for Ok/Mo Deer association fund raiser in Tulsa Aug 19-21. Thanks!

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

Contact Eric Pinkston or Jerry Campbell.

[WRW_2]

Does anyone know if the catalogs are out yet?

[darren]

I have Aug. 19, 20, 21 marked on my calender, it is in Tulsa, Ok. Mark, I havent gotten my catalog yet.

[Bruns Island Whitetails]

A friend, in Iowa, got his catalog today. He called me and told me he saw my lots in there! Eldon

[IndependenceRanch]

Eldon, what you have in there? I'm not home so I haven't seen the catalog yet.

[Critter]

If you didn't get your catalog today or don't in the next couple of days, the OK-MO Sale Catalog is now posted on the Whitetails of Oklahoma website. Go to www.whitetailsofoklahoma.com and then select "Oklahoma News" from the menu bar. You will see the link for each of 4 sections. Large files, but only takes about 10 seconds to download. I think on about page 4 or 5 of section 1 it gives the schedule of events, hotel info and other.

Best,
Larry Armstrong
Armstrong Whitetails

[Bruns Island Whitetails]

Roger, I took a chance on some good bucks from A.I. and had 55% success. I need. to sell some of these fawns to keep up. I got lucky in some sense because the sires of these fawns have blown this year at 2 and 3. One is a doe fawn from Vortex II (you won't believe the pedigree on that one) and one is Maxbo Velocity on Macho Impacts mom and the last is an Extreme Sneakers/ Iowa Geronimo Buck fawn.
Laurie's done a fabulous job with updraft this year. He is awesome!
Hope you get home soon. Eldon

[IndependenceRanch]

Eldon, they sound like great deer your offering. Good luck with the sale and thanks for the good words about Updraft. I'm pretty proud of him.
Roger

[Midwest Deer Sales]

Just got back from Will Ainsworth's Dream Ranch of PA Sale. Really good turn out and Will put on a first class sale. Congratulations to all the Dream Ranch Staff. The auction numbers were really great as I think they averaged $12,000 per lot.

The Oklahoma/Missouri Auction Catalog is online at the whitetailsof oklahoma.com website.

Our new Live online auction service will be up and running soon, and we are very excited about some of the features www.watchtheauction.com will be bringing to the Whitetail Industry. The new online site will intergrate feature like no other auction site in the country. Stay tuned! You will like what you see.

Please contact Jerry Campbell 847.778.8327 or Eric Pinkston 660.825.2006 for more information.

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

Eric.................Another "GREAT AUCTION" Lineup! Midwest Deer Sales has hit another HOMERUN :)

[Midwest Deer Sales]

It has been brought to my attention the Information in the catalog for the Radisson Hotel is incorrect. The phone number listed is the sales associate in charge of the auction event. She is only in the office from 8am to 5pm.

The correct phone number for the Hotel is:

Reservations: 1-800-395-7046

Telephone: 918-627-5000

The catalog can be found online at:
http://whitetailsofoklahoma.com/Oklahoma%20News.html

Thanks
Eric Pinkston

[brett1again]

I tried registering at www.watchtheauction.com to watch the Oklahoma online and it tells me the website doesn't exist. It won't pull up the webpage, is anyone else having this problem?

[WRW_2]

We're somebody!!!!!!! (I think) ;)

Got the catalog yesterday and saw both our lots!! First time we've consigned anything in an auction.

Now for the tough part, waiting for the auction to see if people like the breedings as much as we do.

[Midwest Deer Sales]

The Oaks
The auction site will be up soon. Stay tuned. We are working out the last details, and we fell this site will be the first to bring the total package to the Whitetail industry. The new company we are using is the same company that hosts all the events for the Cruise Collector car auctions, Mecum Collector car auctions, Ritchey Bros Machinery Auctions, and this company hosted the largest event ever to be online last month when Micheal Jacksons, Elvis Pressley, and Marilyn Monroe sold off many of the estate items from these entertainers. There were over 17,000 online bidders at one time for that auction. This company is AWESOME. You will love it!
Thanks
Eric

[IndependenceRanch]

Sounds like a serious website and can't wait to see it in action. Eric I always love how you do your very best for the industry. I appreciate it very much. When there is anything I can do to help just let me know.

[brett1again]

Thanks Eric, I can't attend but didn't want to miss out on some of these lots.

Do you know if the catalogs have been sent out yet?

[IndependenceRanch]

Well I am all signed up and ready for the sale. I think I am as excited about the new auction website as I am the sale. I can't wait to see how it all works out. I have my bidder number, I have beverages, snacks, and a good view out my window of Updraft. I am all set! Who'll start the bidding at...:p:p:p

[LJwhitetails]

40 out of the first 92 went as no sold, things not going so good??

[400CLUB]

That's what I was thinking LJ!

[buckeyewta]

I am at the Great Lakes Classic in Indiana. The first day went pretty well. Shooter buck prices were very strong. Maybe down a liitle bit but better than a lot of poeple expected. Go to dvauction.com to watch.

[Greg M]

Anyone hear how the Oklahoma / Missouri sale went. I have been traveling and not able to watch.

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Good animals brought good prices!! It looked like there were quite a few no sales!!They used a new format for internet bidding and i think that they hit the nail on the head with it.They even warned you 3 times that the gavel was about to drop and you better bid if you are gunna!!!

[LJwhitetails]

91 out of the 184 lots went unsold, not sure if the bidders didn't have enough money or if the seller thought his animals were worth more.
Something needs to be done to keep from having so many NO Sales

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

James, I can only speak for two of the no sales but I will not undercut the buyers that have already purchased semen from Icon. They paid $ 2500.00 per straw so it made no sense to sell it for 800.00. While we have been very lucky to buy some animals at a bargin price, I just can't see giveing stuff away. On a positive note, THANKS to BRETT and JASON on the two lots they purchased. I hope they put some monsters on your farm for you both. Great to see everyone again. MP

[LJwhitetails]

I guess what I was thinking was, the auction company's only want the best of the best and as many new farmers as there are who don't have those deep pockets as the established ones do their is not that much they can afford. They have to take small strides not big leaps. It wouldn't hurt them to let a few more average lots in their sale. At least it might do away with some of the No Sales

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

I agree but im sure there is a fine line they have to go by.I mean if one puts a deer in that all folks cant bid on thats gets a no sale but if they have lesser deer that no one wants they also get a no sale because they wont get any bids!!!!

[IndependenceRanch]

I thought the sale had something for all levels. There just wasn't a lot of buyers there and bidding was soft on some lots.

I liked the new auction site but will be giving some of my personal thoughts to Eric on what I noticed that could be improved or looked into. But I think this new site is the real deal and think it will be great once they get all of it up and running.

[WRW_2]

I think some of the soft bidding could have been a result of having two big auctions (Indiana and Oklahoma) on the same weekend. I thought some lots went good, but some definitely didn't bring near what they should have. Like Mike said, great to see everybody there, had a great time.

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

I think the bidding show where things are in todays deer.Alot of people have real good deer so they are not gunna bid on the same quality animals they have in their pens!!If you have top end animals with a known name you will get bids.If you have run of the mill deer you will get low bids.Anything else is going to grow old in the pens or make burger!!

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

I agree that there was a wide array of lots. From some really good ones to others that really were more suited for a shooter pen. Two sale on the same weekend wasn't the best plan but I know they are all trying to get their sales in. Bargins were there to be had and some folks made out like a bandit. We sure did miss out on a few lots that would have helped us out in the future. Congrats to all the buyers and sellers. We made the best of it.....

[WillPenn Whitetails]

Just wanted to say that it was great meeting the folks that I didn't know and great seeing everyone else!
I agree that there may be too many auctions going on at once sometimes, however, you really can't replace the friendships that can be made from spending quality time with other deer farmers in person.
It was a true pleasure meeting you all!

[Don H]

I think some of the soft bidding could have been a result of having two big auctions (Indiana and Oklahoma) on the same weekend. I thought some lots went good, but some definitely didn't bring near what they should have. Like Mike said, great to see everybody there, had a great time.

Anyone care to comment on why 2 sales were held the same day??? Eric? Jerry? John?:confused:

[dominantgenetics]

DON alot of ppl is wondering the same question and doubt ull get an honest answer WHY

[Don H]

Yes Rusty, the silence is deafening. From the emails and private messages that I got after my post above, I think plenty of people know why the 2 auctions were scheduled the same day ..... and a lot of them arent happy about it. Rather than spread rumors it sure would be nice if someone associated with the auctions would post their own version of the events.

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

Don, I guess I need to come in out the rain...lol What's up?

[dtrain007]

I guess I need someone to tell me which are the "good lots" and which ones are the bad ones. To me a good deer is one that A) produces or is full of producing deer in its pedigree, furthermore producers should not be confused with small framed deer with a lot of points or B) that is full of industry hype that everyone wants. A and B should not but are often times confused as being the same. Sometimes A and B can be in the same animal. Most of the time they are not. I definitely don't claim to follow the industry as I definitely can't afford to in a lot of instances:D

[mrwhiteails]

I asked that question the day it was scheduled by the Oklahoma assoc. The answer I recieved was the only date available and facility availability. I would not read more into it that some are! I believe there have been other sales the same days before. I have suggested before to have a Industry used calender for all the different events. Apparently Florida had something going on at the same time also.

[mrwhiteails]

dtrain
too many A, B and C's for me to follow!

[Don H]

What the...??? I have been fighting the urge but I don't know how much more I can take!

Me too Roger!:mad: I have been fighting the urge but am about to lose that fight .... better shut down the computer for a few days!:)

[mrwhiteails]

Come on Rog let that urge out! Debates are good as long as every one can keep a cool head and open mind.

I guess I should ask.........
Are you What the....? what I wrote or something else?

[alpha and omega whitetail]

Here are the prices for the Great Lakes Classic, can anyone give the prices for the OK sale?

1 - 1500
2 - 1200
3 - 2750
4 - 2500
5 - 1400
6 - n/s
7 - 1500
8 - 500
9 - 2250
10 - n/s
11 - 2250
12 - 2500
13 - n/s
14 - 1750
15 - 500
16 - n/s
17 - 900
18 - n/s
19 - 1500
20 - 2100
21 - 500
22 - 1750
23 - 1500
24 - 1500
25 - 1700
26 - 1100
27 - 1000
28 - 1400
29 - 500
30 - 1200
31 - 500
32 - 1200
33 - 1100
34 - 500
35 - 1100
36 - 600
37 - 1600
38 - 600
39 - 500
40 - 500
41 - 2750
42 - 1600
43 - 2750
44 - 750
45 - 900
46 - 500
47 - 2750
48 - 600
49 - 1100
50 - 500
51 - 900
52 - 750
53 - 1600
54 - 2250
55 - 500
56 - 3200
57 - 600
58 - n/s
59 - 2000
60 - 8250
61 - n/s
62 - n/s
63 - n/s
64 - 1000
65 - 1300
66 - 3000
67 - 3900
68 - n/s
69 - 1500
70 - 3400
71 - 1000
72 - 5000
73 - 13000
74 - n/s
75 - 2250
1 - 2250
2 - 2000
3 - 3500
4 - 3500
5 - 1000
6 - 2750
7 - 1750
8 - 1250
9 - 1500
10 - 1500
11 - 1250
12 - 1400
13 - 1250
14 - 1300
15 - 2500
16 - 2400
17 - 2500
18 - 1100
19 - 1400
20 - 4500
21 - 3900
22 - 900
76 - 3000
77 - n/s
78 - n/s
79 - 1400
80 - 1000
81 - 1750
82 - 1250
83 - 3500
84 - 1600
85 - 3200
86 - 2000
87 - 500
88 - n/s
89 - n/s
90 - 7500
91 - 1250
92 - 500
93 - 5250
94 - 1400
95 - n/s
96 - 1000
97 - n/s
98 - 1000
99 - 1200
100 - 1500
101 - 2000
102 - 600
103 - n/s
104 - 2750
105 - n/s
106 - 500
107 - n/s
108 - 2200
109 - n/s
110 - n/s
111 - 1000
112 - n/s
113 - n/s
114 - n/s
115 - n/s
116 - 900
117 - 2250
118 - 1200
119 - 2500
120 - n/s
121 - n/s
122 - 2750
123 - n/s
124 - n/s
125 - 1250
126 - n/s
127 - 3500
128 - n/s
129 - n/s
130 - n/s
131 - 1250
132 - n/s
133 - n/s
134 - n/s
135 - 500
136 - n/s
137 - 900
138 - n/s
139 - n/s
140 - n/s
141 - n/s
142 - n/s
143 - 500
144 - 4000
145 - 1000
146 - 1750
147 - n/s
148 - 500
149 - n/s
150 - 500

[LJwhitetails]

Henry you can go to http://watchtheauction.com (http://watchtheauction.com/) and click on the Ok-Missouri sale and the info should come up-------you don't have to sign up.
This is a good format and I think every auction should have this

[alpha and omega whitetail]

Thanks James

[virgil]

Let it out boys lets here it. I have been wondering but chose to keep quiet didn't want anyone to think I was trying to start something.

[WRW_2]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to start anything, just making a simple observation. If I thought it was such a bad thing I wouldn't have consigned lots in the Missouri Oklahoma sale.

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

Come on keep pickin at it.................. the scab on this sore might just come LOOSE!

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Enough already......I bought one at the ok sale and then it was turned around and put down as a no sale....I bought one at great lakes and have not heard anything about it since...Mabey that one went no sale also.It was kinda strange jumpin back and forth...
Ok now lets hear from some others...It should be interesting!!!!! Wayne i'm scratchin!!

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

Mike, I guess my thought would be maybe we shouldn't have any auctions till most have thier shooters sold! Seems alot of people had that comment. I don't like to no sale......but with an ad,booth,travel expences,LOW attendence! Guess I'd rather not sink the added expense of A/I ,Offering to keep for a year and bottle feed, DNA, FREE delivery and GAURENTEED A/I fawns............Well my wife says I give the farm away when I sell but I like to offer what I would want as a buyer! It has ALWAYS worked in the past but not at this sale........Oh almost forgot offering all this and then NO PAY when it's time to pay! Ya .............. Guys , I guess I shouldn't have no saled then my BANKER AND MY WIFE COULD AGREE!!!!!!!!:D

[mrwhiteails]

I was sent this email this evening and I must proclaim I found it quite disturbing. It seems to imply that maybe Mid West was changing the sale dates to overlap with other sales. I have questioned and shared concerns with any of the sale companies who have scheduled a sale without putting a least 2 weeks in between sales. I had this same conversation with Kevin G. when I heard the Oh. sale date. I know in Pa we have changes our date 3 times to keep 2 weeks in between the Oh and Pa sale because that was best for the industry as a whole. I have to say that many of the new sale company have not scheduled accordingly. I have to applaud the Chupps for putting there sale in Dec not conflicting with any other sales but the same cannot be said of the Supreme Cervidae, Buckeye or Yoder sale. Supreme and Buckeye scheduled sales weekend before or after existing sales John simply put the Michigan sale the same weekend as TDA. So many attend the TDA that will always take away from that sale. Which I know I expressed that concern with John. We all need to do what is best for the industry and by overlapping sale or running back to back sales does nobody any good! The fall use to be wide open now its so freaking packed nobody can possibly attend everything. Let's see the month of Aug we had Cervid Congress 1st week, Ainsworth sale 2nd week, Pa summer picnic 3rd (unfortunately my vacation week), Ok-missouri sale/yoder sale,4thweek and the TDA this week. Sept has the Ohio sale then Pa sale 2 weeks later All-American sale....that 1 weekend open Aug Thur sept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even know what else was scheduled in individual states that may have been going on also!!!!

The Oklahoma sale was established by the Oklahoma committee, Midwest had no say in the date selected as is the Pa sale date selected each year, the Indy sale in 09 was not changed to conflict with Supreme sale it was changed to put 2 weeks in between it and the Pa sale, the All American sale in 09 was established by Damon Thorpe in Texas. I know Damon is the one set the date this year as well because they had a tentative date of 3rd week od Oct. but many participants said they could not participate if it was that date because it conflicted with AI and hunting as Myself was one of those apposed. I called Eric Pinkston about the Midwest select being moved up a week because SCI moved that show a week. Buckeye put that sale the week before the Midwest Select regular date and unfortunately now causing an overlap. I know when I saw last year the date of the Buckeye being the week before Select I just shook my head for not putting 2 weeks in between.
I find it unfair of those that are proclaiming conspiracy of others to be purposely trying to hurt other sales... What good does that do for anyone in this industry? Some sales have been established and others have tried to squeeze in other sales in an already overloaded schedule. Maybe we should eliminate the Pa sale!!!!!!!! A sale that the association make money on to better the industry...........not putting monies in our pocket but monies in our coffers to give to states, research, lobbyists, sponsorships etc...........ALL THE MONIES ARE BEING USED FOR THE RIGHT THINGS and not lining pockets. I believe Okl. and Missouri are trying to accomplish the same thing. We are fortunate enough to have Midwest do this for us! Some may disagree but I am proud of what we have accomplished in PA.

I'm not here to piss anyone off but to clarify some of the miss directed views some have proposed. These are trying time and we do not need to bickering among st ourselves.
If some want to hash out ideas to make this thing better lets do just that not flinging mud. I believe that is the true purpose of this forum! Something needs to be done to get the ship a sailing!

Respectfully,
Harry Strawser

PS. I know my grammar and my spelling suck so don't read this and call me a dumb*@^! I was not a English teaching.

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Well said harry and i think all will get yur drift,no matter of spelling or the way you come across.I just said to angie last night about the numbers of deer for sale.I recieved both the ohio and pa catalogs last night and there is like 300 deer alone in those sales.I just hope we dont drowned ourselves with so many deer that the prices head the same way the shooters are going.

[IndependenceRanch]

I deleted my earlier post saying I was "fighting the urge" because apparently no one understood what was really bothering me in an earlier post.
That earlier post had zero, nothing, na da to do with sales or sale dates.
Personally I don't buy into the idea anyone is trying to have their sale on the same date as someone elses sale. It would be STUPID to do so. Anyone running an auction KNOWS they need all the possible bidders they can get in attendance. So they wouldn't want to have overlapping dates on purpose.
Everyone has trouble finding dates that don't conflict with other events. Have any of you ever tried planning a family Christmas party? Everyone lives busy lives and the deer industry in fall and winter is no different.
Have any of you ever thought that just maybe there are just TOO MANY AUCTIONS going on?

[buckeyewta]

Just a few words on auction dates. We always check the nadefa schedule before setting any dates and also try to post any updates asap. I think if we all check the nadefa site before setting dates we may be able to avoid this problem.

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

More farms,more deer,hence more auctions!!!Just what i meant about us takin ourselves down the tubes.I agree to many auctions and if there were less it would force more on the farm sales.That would be a good thing!!!

[Whitetail Deer Farmer]

I do not normally read or post on these forums other than to inform you when there are updates to my web site.

But this time I will make an exception.

John Yoder has no Michigan sale!

Only the Mid America Classic Auction and the Great Lakes Classic Auction.

I question why Harry Strawser said what he did about these sales overlapping as he was personally in attendance and dictated about 50% of the contract made between John Yoder, Jerry Campbell and Eric Pinkston.

When John sold his share of the Auctions to Jerry Campbell and Eric Pinkston there was a clause stating that he could not change his other Auction’s dates for 5 years to conflict with theirs.

On the contract it is very plainly written that all fall sales will be done in the later part of august for the first 5 years.

And they all have been for the last 3 years.

The NO COMPETE clause was written that both must comply with.

The Contract states that they may not interfere with John Yoder sales.

The Oklahoma Missouri sale has never been on this weekend before this time.

If Harry has lost his copy or forgot what it says then maybe it could be posted on line.

Deer Farmers are not stupid as most will see what’s going on.

And as Mark Mast posted check the http://www.nadefa.org/ site for auction dates.

Dale Chupp (Chupp Auctions), Mark Mast (Buckeye Auctions), John Yoder (American Classic Auctions), Kevin Grace (Whitetail Sales) and more all use this service to schedule their Auctions.

I am also posting now that the next

Chupp’s Premier Whitetail Auction will be held December 16 & 17 - 2010

Buckeye Fall Trophy & Breeder Auction will be held October 28 & 29 - 2010

Buckeye Spring Trophy & Breeder Auction will be held February 3 & 4 - 2011

Mid America Classic Auction Will be held February 18 & 19 - 2011

The Fourth Annual Great Lakes Classic Auction will be held August 19 & 20 - 2011


Wayne Pederson
http://www.whitetaildeerfarmer.com/

[IndependenceRanch]

I sure hope the terms of the contracts I have made with people in the deer industry are kept more confidential than what is being talked about on this thread.

[mrwhiteails]

Well Wayne if you would like to hash out on here let's have at it! First off my post was to disarm any plots that some are trying to unravel throughout. My intentions was to get folks to get along and make everyone happy but if you would like bare all lets do so!
I have no copies of the contract and haven't seen it since the day they signed it.
Yes I was present in the contract signing and yes I am aware of the terms which were between John and Eric not Jerry Campbell. If you like to know it was at the Top 30 that year. I was asked by both side to intervene because John and Eric could not get along. Every time John and Eric had problems which was no secret to most, John would call me to help iron out. If John denies that then I am deeply disappointed in him which I will gladly speak to him about to refresh his memory if need be!

Whatever you like to call the sale but it started out as the Michigan sale now The Great Lakes Classic. I know of the discrepancy there because John called me over there dispute. The dispute seemed to be the sale moving from Michigan to Shipshy and going from 1day sale to 3 day sale. Both side seemed to differ in opinion of how the sale changed hence John called me to help him resolve. I was hesitant and tired of having to deal with it but I did my best and I believe helped them resolve there differences. Everything seemed to going smoothly until this horse shit starts again!

Ever since I got into raising deer I have dedicated myself to make this thing better any way I could. I have set aside self interests and sacrificed plenty for others yet getting criticized along the way. At some point I may just say screw it, just simply worry about myself tell all to kiss my backside when problems or issues arise.

Wayne if your so dedicated to the industry why do you not list all the events such as NaDEFA, Kevin Grace sales or Midwest events on your website.

Maybe once we all tear one another apart and really destroy this Industry maybe then some will wake up and realize no good is coming out of this blame game. If we all choose sides and there are 6 sides..............GOOD LUCK with that!

I CHOOSE THE SIDE OF RIGHT!

I don't care WHO it is if I see something wrong that is being done I speak up directly not back dooring or conspiring. I have questioned all sale companies of there timing and/or managing directly..... not on here bashing anyone which really solves nothing.

Wayne the point of my original post was everyone to try and plan so no events coincide with one another. Allow 2 weeks between any event so to allow more people to participate...............Does anyone AGREE that would be beneficial?????

Wayne the Okla sale was planned by the Okla/Mo guys as I stated earlier...last year they had it in conjunction with Cervid Congress the first week of Aug. Maaaaaaybeeeeeeeee they were conspiring against and planned it that way.


I don't know what else to say other than I am getting more and more disgusted with so many. I feel some true intentions are not for the betterment (don't even know if that is a word) of all but the destruction of all! I'm not just talking about this issue but of so many others.


I feel a little like Jerry McGuire here!


I would like to here others opinions, I dont like being out on this island by myself.

[160goldstar]

Allow 2 weeks between any event so to allow more people to participate...............Does anyone AGREE that would be beneficial?????

Mrwhitetails, I agree one hundred percent with you.

[IndependenceRanch]

Harry,
Your not on an island by yourself. I don't even know all the stuff about sales and who owns what and what dates it all takes place on. And frankly don't care either. I am sick of some saying they are being screwed in some way by someone else. You want to have a sale. Set a date and have a sale. The end.
I do think there should be at least 2 weeks between sale events. Even at that it is crazy to think the most people will be able to attend all these events. I was lucky enough to be out of a job last year (what did i just say???) and while being out of work I was able to attend more sales than any year previously. I LOVE WHITETAILS but by the end of the season I was whitetailed out! Too many sales events!
As long as we are speaking out how about one I am sick to death of hearing about.
Hype. Some folks can only complain about hype this and hype that. Can someone explain to me the difference between marketing and hype!?!?!
A farm runs ads to market their animals and then others want to say it is hype.
A farm is fortunate enough to raise a big buck and then some want to condemn them saying all they do is brag or hype their animal. Heck I always thought promoting your stuff was called marketing!
A co-worker of mine (yes i am back to work) stopped in while driving through the state the other day. Him and his wife to be stopped in to see the deer and while here I looked at their car ( a BMW ) and Laurie's Saturn sitting side by side in the driveway.
Both cars would get a person from point a to point b. In fact the Saturn may do it with better fuel mileage even. But the fact is the BMW cost more when new, and would cost more than the Saturn when they are both 5 years old. And there is a reason for this. The damn BMW is a better car! The damn BMW is more desirable than a piece of crap Saturn! I don't give two shits if it "hype" or whatever anyone wants to call it.
A meal at McDonalds is a quick and cheap meal.
A meal at TX Roadhouse is better and costs more.
A local guy does taxidermy in his garage on weekends and he doesn't charge much but his work sucks to be frank. I prefer to have someone who does quality work do the job and pay a little more.
Each year there are guys who are big and fast that could play football really well for an NFL team and they would do it for much less than most any of the guys with a contract on a team now. But do you want Dick Jones playing on your team or do you want a probowl caliber player on your team?
I can't understand why some are so hung up on the fact that some bloodlines bring better money at the sales than other bloodlines.

A few weeks back I had the guy who purchased Max Thrust tell me that he is pleased with how well people know of the buck. He feels that I had marketed him pretty well while I had him and for that reason he is having an easier time making sales now that he owns him.
What is my point?
Well that should be obvious but apparently to some it isn't so I will tell you what my point is. When the guys who market their farms and their stock do so, they are not only marketing for themselves, but also for their investors. What the jealous people call hype, others call marketing.
I for one am sick of the petty crap and wish some people would get over it.

[160goldstar]

Have any of you ever thought that just maybe there are just TOO MANY AUCTIONS going on?

Roger, I have thought of that a lot. Maybe instead of having so many sales,maybe have more lots per sale. Just a thought.

[160goldstar]

Roger,

I totally agree with ya! Couldnt have said it any better.

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

WOW Rog.... Between you and Harry, I have nothing to say. Very well said by you both. I guess I will bring the drinks and chips to the island. See ya there.

[buckeyewta]

If anyone has any concerns or suggestions as to how we can improve our services or better promote the industry please contact me at buckeyewta@aol.com or talk to me at the Ohio sale next week. We are here to serve the industry and are more than willing to hear about your concerns.

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

All I have to say is...............I TOLD ya all about picken at that SCAB now DIDN'T I!!!

Harry,Roger,Michael..........WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!! I'll bring the lawn chairs out to the island

[Arrowhead Whitetails]

Bring Ol'Soloman along with you. He'll be the gate keeper...lol

[ddwhitetails]

Everybody is frustrated because we all see whats coming and are not quite sure how to stop it. We all know the industry is flooded with new deer farmers and continuing to flood worse everyday....heck just talked with my Dept of AG inspector three days ago when he came to inspect the farm. He told me he had 25 new farms added to his schedule just in the last month and that is only for a portion of the State of PA. There is 25 new farmers and yeah that might sound great to some as they can sell those new farmers deer but that will be 25 new deer farmers looking to unload their shooters in a few years in an already flooded market. Of course their are more Auctions popping up everywhere.....there are so many deer out there people need to sell and not enough auctions to satisfiy the demand.............so now we have more auctions which are going to interfere with each other as there is only so much time in a year. I'ts like the levy's in New Orleans when katrina hit ......it could only flood so much before something has to burst..........we are in the process of the burst.............I know no one wants to hear this stuff and we all want to just look the other way and pretend its not happening but it is.....and we are going to have to deal with it sooner rather than later........I do agree with Harry about the mud slinging and there sure has been some going on in this thread......but it solves NOTHING!! We need to put our heads together and figure out how to get through the situation we are facing. Things need to start happening soon or it's only going to get worse before it gets better.
Roger, I do agree with you on the jealous people out there........hey if your fortunate enough to have a great animal on your farm TALK HIM UP........MARKET the crap out of him..........I don't call that "Hype".....I call it Smart business sense!!

[virgil]

If any thing is ruining the industry it would be to many sales were lots are being bid up. The bidding up of lots is giving to many new guys a false idea of what deer are worth causing to many to get into a industry that does not have a big enough end market to handle all of the deer being raised. A feuw guys will make a buck the rest will loose. We need less sales and more focus on bringing in new hunters or it is all going to crash. With all these deer out there it is just a matter of time before someone starts under cutting everyone elses prices on their hunts then all will have to follow just to stay a float.
Roger, when it comes to hype this has nothing to do with advertising. It is all about bidding up and lying about scores to get new guys who don't know any better and everyone else to falselly buy something. (not referring to you)
How much is a deer really worth? A deer is only worth what a hunter is willing to pay for it. Just ask some of the new guys who spent lots of money at auctions and now have to no sale their lots cause they ain't getting jack crap out of their lots.HYPE is what caused so many to overspend and loose money. The only thing that is going to make things better is for people to realize this and to start to buy and sale at reasonable prices.Don't get cuaght up in the hype and spend more than a deer is worth or is going to make you in the hunting market. To much of anythig can be bad to many auction to many deer to much bull crap and specially to much Hype!!!

[ddwhitetails]

It all depunds on what your definition of Hype is..........Virgil in the way that you use the word....I agree.....but i call it false advertising or better yet bad business! But if you have a nice animal on your farm and your talking it up......well I don;t call that hype ....i call it good marketing........smart business. But you are right Virgil, we need to focus on selling our product (whitetails and High Fenced hunts) to a larger percentage of the Hunting population or things are going to get worse..........and I am tired of people coming on here after they read a post like this and call it over reacting or the sky is falling......we can't afford to keep kidding ourselves and looking the other way......we need to join together as an industry and figure out what we need to do to over come our problems!!!!

[Whitetail Deer Farmer]

Supreme and Buckeye scheduled sales weekend before or after existing sales John simply put the Michigan sale the same weekend as TDA.

Harry this is the sentence that was brought to my attention.

We do not know why you said it as this was just after the contracts were already signed and locked John into those dates.
John and maybe you were not aware of the TDA at the time of the signing.

This is the whole reason the contract was brought up and your involvement.

You have some very good advice and points that well serve the industry.
You just need to figure out how to make it all work.

I do not advertise the other Auctions as they have their own web sites.

I agree with Dennis of DJD Whitetails

Wayne Pederson
http://www.whitetaildeerfarmer.com/

[CMore]

does anyone know what lot 63 brought?

[ddwhitetails]

Thanks Wayne atleast someone admits we have a problem......kind of like an alcoholic...first step is admitting there is a problem..second step is doing something about it........look I am one of the small guys out there that got in three years ago........I am ashamed to even say what I have invested in my farm and my deer because right now I know there is no way in hell I'm getting those dollars back unless we start to focus on our problems in the Industry....and a couple auctions over lapping thier date with one another is FAR......FAR.....FAR from the problems we need to be focused on!!!!!!

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

There is no stoping it now.The whitetail deer is a great animal and every person that hunts wants to raise a big buck.Heck thats why i got my first deer!!The only way to stop the flooding of the market would be for each state to stop all new deer farmers and i dont see that happening or would it be the right thing to do.The hype per say would be from the so many great deer that people are making and putting a price on.Everybody tries to make the next marketable deer and with so many great bloodlines there is many that are doin just that.The bidding at the auctions show just that,The great deer get bids and the so so deer get lower bids but the farmer has more money invested the last couple years so he has to try and recoup some of the investment. I am not sure what the answer is but im sure glad i didnt break the bank with the deer i bought but i sure will have some great eye candy to enjoy and will luv every minute i spend with these great animals!!!

[mrwhiteails]

I glad to see some aknowledge the issue at hand and hopefully will keep focus to the issues at hand ....not making new issues

DD said:
....heck just talked with my Dept of AG inspector three days ago when he came to inspect the farm. He told me he had 25 new farms added to his schedule just in the last month and that is only for a portion of the State of PA.

Part of the reason, actually a big part, the inspector is getting added farms is this is the first so many farms who previously did not have CLO license now have to hence more inspections. Unfortunately in our license fee legislation we overlooked an issue of who is actually gonna have to be licensed. The fee was put in place to keep our CWD program in place without any interruptions. We are the only state who had not had any fees period!

Virgil I cant agree more about the hunting issue it has been hashed around quite abit on here but nobody can get anything done on here. We need the heads of this industry to act on the issue that includes the state associations and most of all NaDEFA.
Once again Virgil you are dwelling on your RUNNING bids and over scoring of deer...Frankly I tired of hearing about these issue....LET IT GO MAN! These 2 issues are not killing the industry its the bickering and not working together thats hurting us all. Hell man the scoring issue cant even be resolved by the current system everyone wants to use.....its so subjective that different Master scorers can't even come up with a common score. My system is simply this the deer LOOKS BIG or it doesn't! As far as your hype issue!
HYPE
A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertised as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.
1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate

2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily

3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc.

By the definition above its apparent this site is used for so much HYPE!


Wayne I understand you may have not been given the whole situation.

"You have some very good advice and points that well serve the industry.
You just need to figure out how to make it all work."

I only wish I could figure out how to make it all work and fix everything but I know it will take the whole to address the issues at hand. I have tried to get on the NaDEFA board with the thinking I could make difference but have been unsuccessful(maybe its because of my poor spelling and grammar).

For the record Wayne, John was aware of the TDA sale, him and I discussed that and John felt it would not interfere with either sale. Actually this is the first year that Johns and TDA didn't fall on same weekend. More and more folks from the north have started to attend. The past 5 yrs I have attended but decided this year I would pass so that I could be home 1 weekend in the months of Aug. & Sept. San Antonia is a pretty cool city.... Its almost like a vacation going down for the event.

Keep it cool everyone!

[ddwhitetails]

Harry,
I respectfully disagree with you on my conversation with the Dept. of Ag inspector. yes you are correct that his schedule may and has increased because of the CLO license you mention above..however, the numbers i was talking about (25 NEW Farmers) were and are purely NEW DEER FARMERS.......nothing to do with the CLO issue......we discussed that as well. These are brand new deer farmers...new fence....new deer ....new farmers........ We can't pretend that our market is not getting flooded with new deer farmers trying to cash in on the high dollars that the whitetails were bringing a couple years ago (or atleast it appeared that they were bringing high dollars..whole nother story there)! Anyhow, this is the issue.....and if you want to dodge around the subject its not going to do a thing to help fix it. I hate the fact that this is happening.......and I know some don't want new possible farmers to read this and tuck their tails and run....but that would be the best thing that could happen for our industry at this point..........I don't know where to begin.....but I know something needs to happen.........Mike you bring up a great point a lot of us are doing this for the love of the animals......trust me i love the whitetails as much and more as any other deer farmer out there.....but my feelings would not be hurt if my farm could start supporting itself soon. I may not be popular or one of the big dogs in the industry......but my investment in this deer farming is real and I am not about to let it be for nothing. Not sure where to start or how.....but i will start making phone calls and doing my part to try and get something started before it is too late........at the very least in the end.....I CAN SAY I TRIED!!!

[mrwhiteails]

DD not trying to DODGE around anything ...by no means! I know of the same type conversation with my inspector as well and I saw the list he had of "new deer farmer". 3 on that list I knew and had deer before I ever thought of getting any, fact is I actually went to some of them for information. Apparently somebody in that area must be doing some great promoting of the deer to have that many "NEW FARMs". I stand to be corrected if thats not the case but its the case in my area here.
I dodge no issues..............I have been in the trenches in the state of PA since "WE" began the association in 2002!

This is going way off topic of what the original posting was but am quite confused why this topic of high dollar animals/price fixing etc.. keeps coming up????? Anybody who gets into it needs to stay within ones means if they go jumping in looking for a quick/big return its a huge mistake... doesn't matter if its now or 5yrs ago. Maybe I'm naive or stupid but I don't see all this manipulation going on that you guys seem to be seeing. I try to attend as many sales possible each year so Im assuming all this happening right in front of me and don't even see it. This has been something hashed out over and over and over so many times on here.....as I have stated above this is NOT the issue that is haunting us. We will never succeed at anything if we cant all get along and get on the same page of goals.....that is the issue.

DD I'm not very "popular either or one of the big dogs" ....I just get involved and maybe too much which is why I'm on here dealing with these issues and not on "HYPING" my deer instead. LOL

Peace

[ddwhitetails]

Harry regarding my conversation with the inspector and the new deer farms I did not see any list that he had but was told by him that he had these new farms added to his area........if he is lying to me then I stand to be corrected as well......regarding your involvement with the state of PA I have no doubt you have put in your time and have "been in the trenches" fighting for the industry and I never questioned that in any of my responses above. I am thankful for what alot of you guys who got in the business years ago have done for us.
As far as the High dollar animals/price fixing goes.......I personally have no hard solid proof of it happening other than many conversations i have had with several very reputable farmers in the business and this is what has been told to me....again, if i am being lied too i stand to be corrected........I am pretty certian it happens but I am also sure there are many legitamate High dollar deals that happen as well. I agree this is not the issue that is haunting us now.........we have much larger issues that need attention.
You are absolutely right about someone getting in the business for a quick return........these people will be in for a rude awakening if they think this is the case with the deer business.......takes time and hard work just as in any other business to build it to a success.
Harry not that there is anything wrong with being popular or a big dog any and all of those that are in that category have earned their stripes and deserve everything they get.......I think you might be a little more popular than you give yourself credit for :eek:. and with that said you are way beyond the point of having to "hype" up any of your deer.....LOL:), Hey I lnow we all want to see our Industry succeed and we do need to work together to address the problems that face us.........I am ready to try and do my part.... if I wasn't I would not be expressing my concerns as I have above. I wish nothing but the best for our Industry.

[BC Buck Trout]

Alright I’ve been sitting back here and reading these conversations for awhile now and I finally think it’s time for me to put in my two cents. The question at hand here is how we solidify our industry for the future while coinciding those efforts into a more reasonable auction schedule. To help get a better idea on how to accomplish this goal we must look at the transformation of our industry and how far it has come over just the past decade. Back in the day when you bought breeding stock you would buy a deer because it had a big father or grandfather or just because it came from a certain farm. No one was worried about scores or pedigrees, in fact many farmers didn’t know what a lot of their stock was from, rather just what “pen” it came from. As far as the shooter market went preserves were more than happy to pick up bucks ranging from 100”-150” and many many bucks less than 100” were shipped along as well.
Now let’s take a look at today’s market where every deer is scrutinized to the max for its pedigree and we’re DNA profiling our entire herds. The shooter market has also moved on to the point that most preserves will not buy bucks under 150” anymore for more than the price of feed. How can you consider yourself in the deer business if you are losing money when selling your animals. I think what really needs to be done is that we need to start dividing up what we consider “breeders” and “hobbyist”. Not everyone with a doe and buck on their farm should be considered a breeding operation and their prices should reflect such. To be quite honest I picked up an auction catalog the other day and from nearly 200 lots I couldn’t find one worth bidding on. I don’t say this to be negative but the biggest problem here is that we are trying to turn the local diner waitress into a princess! If your animals aren’t keeping up with industry standard don’t try and push off these lower class animals on people trying to start a new farm just because they don’t know the difference. Either start sending these does to the hunting ranches, sell them as pets or put them on the dinner table.
We can’t keep flooding the market with these does that are still producing the bucks that we can’t make any money from. I speak from experience here as just 5 years ago our herd was nearly 120 animals and making that many sales was very difficult. Currently we are down to roughly 60 animals and our income is much higher than it was before and our expenses are less too! It plays off the principal idea of quality over quantity because a cheap deer will eat the same amount of food that an expensive one does. I hate to say it, but farms need to start taking hits to eco size their herds and help the industry. I myself sold a doe this year that was the womb sister of a 120”+ yearling as a pet and for the price of a pet. Over the years many of our deer have ended up on the dinner table and I’m not afraid to say it. If you really look at what it costs to raise a deer for the year it’s what $300-$400? If you lowered your herd by five animals you could save roughly $1500-$2000 a year with which you could buy a well bred animal. I hate seeing people go out wanting to start a breeding operation and buy 10-20 of these “preserve does” and call themselves a breeder.
If we focus our efforts to get these new aspiring “breeders” to keep up with the industry and stop stroking our own ego that our animals are better than anyone else’s we can drop back on the number of auctions and the number of animals in them. This can help boost auction prices and it can also give the shooter market a chance to start waiting lists for hunts and thus sustaining prices. In the mean time we need to better promote our industry and hope that the economy starts to turn the corner and allows more people to go out on those dream hunts. There is a reason that certain bloodlines sell for more money than others. If you can’t beat them, join them! I’m sorry it’s after 4am and I’m probably rambling, but this is the only time I get to do this stuff… hopefully someone finds a spec of good information in my blabble to start this discussion in another direction. Night zzzzz…

[ddwhitetails]

Dustin,
Your thread above speaks of the same thing we have been talking about a flooded market so i don't know how its going to take the discussion in a different direction. This is the issue at hand and we do need to address it. The problem is we can discuss it on here all we want but nothing ever goes any further.....I am not saying these discussions are not any good but we need to take it to the next level and that would be to take action. So where do we start?

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

I guess we need to load the rifles and call the local old mcdonalds farm and unload some deer!!!!
Dustin thanks for tellin me that doe i bought from you was just a pet,before we put her in the box!!!I will have fun tryin to get a pettin zoo to take that one!!!!

[virgil]

Dustin, you are right people need to get rid of their deer that don't produce by eating them or shooting them. Buy selling these to others you are just passing on the feed bill. How ever their are a lot of deer out there that do produce good 150 and up shooters. The problem here is there are to many deer good or bad for the shooting end of the industry to handle. I have eaten many of my deer that produce 150 and up shooters at 2 years of age. As a matter of fact last year a small group of deer farmers got together and had a deer roast. We ate one of Low Riders(250+) daughters and she was good eaten. Bottom line is we need more hunters and less breeding stock being sold and until this happens prices will continue to fall.
Harry,you are to busy with to many things evidently and you have missed all the bidding up of lots. It does happen and I personaly have been asked to do it by farmers I didn't even know. Was told if did this that they would give me a good deal on some other deer. If one thinks it does not happen all the time your only fooling your self. I guess you could call this a very good marketing strategy. When someone spends 10,000 or more on a straw of semen out of a buck what are they going to put it in? They are going to put it in one of their best doe. Meanwhile this buck is being put in the best of the best doe. He now becomes known as a producing machine and every one now wants his semen and has to pay good money for it. This is a very good marketing strategy and now the one who originaly bid his prices up no longer has to. Take a nother good buck put it in the same top doe and you will get the same results. This happens weather you are aware or not.
As far as the scoring goes you are right to many veriables. It just stinks to see that their are so many people that are willing to cheat when they really do have a nice deer.This does not go unoticed and hopefully people will start laying out their score sheets to compare with their deers rack. Score does not really matter to me either it is just the princable of being honest.
Also Harry, keep up the good work keeping our borders open and all the other stuff. I comend you and all the others on the PA board for such good work. Maybe some of these other states could use your help getting their borders open. This would really help the industry as a whole if you know what I mean.

[BC Buck Trout]

Ha ha Mike she was no pet if her sons throw buttons like the ones that you have and I paid 8k for her momma! Believe it or not I sold one of my does for ALOT less then you paid for her! Yes I do understand that my post was similar to what you were talking about but it looks at the discussion in a whole new light. Maybe you missed the point I was trying to make so I'll try again...

Deer breed at very high rates. In a matter of three years an open doe and a single buck can turn into 10 animals very quickly, so by that calculation the shooter market has to grow by 5x every 3 breeding seasons just to keep up with the growing deer population even if we were to disallow new farmers. Personally I think that would be the worst thing for all of us if we weren't allowed to get new farmers started because your end market just got cut in half! The point I'm trying to make is that there needs to be two classifications in our business... Breeders and Hobbyist. The breeder is someone who spends good money on their animals and dedicates their time to advertising, meeting farmers, ect. The hobbyist is someone who puts whitetail deer in their back yard and lets the males and females interact during the fall season and then calls people like me up in the spring to sell their animals because they don't know what to do with them. I guess the best way to make this understandable is compare deer to say dogs. There is a very high end market for dog breeding and just like the deer certain people make a lot of money from it. But unlike the deer there are in a lot of cases these “hobbyist” that get their females pregnant and give away all of the offspring because they don’t know what to do with them. At last check our house pets feed bills are higher than the ones outside and remember that little number I threw up before on how much money you would save per year on each animal that you aren’t trying to make a living off of. I don’t know how to make it any simpler than not every deer is a breeder and for lack of a better term a lot of them are “mutts” that shouldn’t be bred or their offspring should be given away.

As far as the shooter market goes if we continue to produce these bigger and better animals of course the pricing will come down because it’s a matter of availability. Who wouldn’t take a little less money for their animals each year just to know that you will be able to sell them for many years to come. At this point we can all agree that growing a 200” buck is fairly easy and cheap. The 200” are selling for around a $5000 average and it takes no more than $2000 to get them to that point. You tell me in what other farming related business can you more than double your money on every crop that passes through your hands. If you ask me, we are very lucky that prices have been as high as they are for so long. We have to take a reality check sometimes to see where we actually are.
The thing that drives me absolutely insane are the people that come to my farm and tell me they want to become a whitetail breeder, but they say that my animals are too expensive for them and they go somewhere else and buy say 10 does from someone else for say $2000-$3000. They said my deer were to expensive and that his were cheaper but what they don’t realize is that for the same amount of money they could have gotten 1 decent animal that would cost them 90% less to take care of and your salability and profit skyrockets. You don’t need a lot of animals to be considered a breeder, just quality ones. Then a year or two later these guys come back and expect me to help them start selling stuff because I was the only one willing to help them! They don't go to functions, they don't participate in the breeding world, but they expect to sell their animals just like everyone else does. It comes off as a lack of effort and this is the main reason that we have so many auctions. People aren't trying to sell their own animals and people are trying to sell animals that should not be bred with. They think they can just throw them in an auction and they will sell themselves. It would be interesting to take a poll on here to see the number of animals that A) you sell yourself B) have another farmer sell for you C) put in auction or D) give away. People are breeding beyond their means, get these huge herds and start liquidating. Well what’s the best way to sell something quickly? Put it up for auction or put it on deerbay.com!
If we don't know what to do with these animals in the first place then why are we breeding so many!? I stand by my words because if you've noticed I have not put animals in auction going on two years now and I've sold out every season! Excuse me for a second as I “HYPE” up my deer herd. I’ve sold 19 does so far this year and probably another ½ dozen for other local farmers and it was all done by word of mouth; going to visit other farmers and pushing my product. Currently I only have 4 girls left to be sold until next season so even if I put them all in auction I’ll still have under 15% of my total doe sales being auctioned off. So if anyone wants some genetics from Amos Kauffman’s Holly, TM’s mother from Harry or Birchwood’s grandma give me a call LOL .
It’s the whole factor of quality over quantity at work here. The better your genetics are and the less you have to sell, the quicker it goes. I admit the last 2 years since my dad has been gone I haven’t gone to as many sales as I used to but I still try and participate as much as I can as I am an active member of NADEFA and PADEFA and visit a lot of farms each year. In retrospect the only point I’m trying to make here is that not every deer is a breeder and these auction companies along with these smaller farmers should not continue to promote this type of animal, either be extremely selective or don’t sell at all. We can’t flood the breeding market with deer hamburger and expect to survive. Do your part, buy up these cheap animals for diner, I mean heck it is a lot cheaper than beef and even better for you. We have to support the people who support us and if you’re not a member in any of the state or national organizations then you shouldn’t be trying to sell animals at such events. If you think deer breeding is to expensive for you, then don’t put the bucks and does together or get them some birth control! But if you are raising quality animals, keep it fresh and bring something new on to your farm each year and send those old girls somewhere that they won’t continue to produce subpar offspring. Maybe we can get together with some of these preserves and help them promote doe hunts to locals to keep everyone happy and the line moving. I think next years PA Deer Farmer picnic should include a contest to see who can make the best venison based product! If I offended anyone or their herds I do apologize, but sheesh, for something to have value someone has to want it. Think of deer like you would an antique… the more rare it is and the better quality the more money you will get for it. So I think my final words shall be that maybe we all need to start focusing on smaller, more productive herds and put those girls out to pasture that are past their prime.

[400CLUB]

In response to Dustin's posts...if anyone has does like this (cull does) to sell I'm buying them!!! I can use as many as you have! Message me on here or email me at rbt2@frontiernet.net!

[BC Buck Trout]

This issue has been eating at me all day and I have a lot more I want to say about it. I've still got a bunch of work to do however and as you've seen my excerpts take more then a few minutes to write. I have come up with the perfect solution to our industry's problem, however I know that it will take a lot of political efforts to even attempt such a fix. All I'm going to say is that if any of you know me personally you know what my regular job is and our services come as a major bonus to the sportsmen of Pennsylvania. It would take a lot of cooperation but man would it turn our state around and blow up deer prices!

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Do tell this new yorker!!!!!!!!!! I'M IN!!!!!!!!!

[virgil]

If your thinking what I'm thinking this would be great. There have been several sportsman that have approached me to see if I would stock some of my deer into their woods. I had to turn them down do to all the rules and regulations but to my understanding this is aloud in Texas and they claim that is one reason for shutting down the borders. They didn't want people flooding their state with deer. Man this sure would be a great thing specialy with the decline in the deer population here in PA. Dustin, Maybe I jumped the gun but I figured since you were a fish stocker you wanted to become a deer stocker as well.
Harry, maybe you could ad this to your project list. Lets get er dun boys!!!Just think how many people would start hunting here in PA again and this would definatly be a nother big big outlet for our industries deer population. A lot of people quit hunting here in PA do to the decline in the deer populations.

[ddwhitetails]

Sounds great Virgil but it's never going to happen as long as CWD is around......hate to sound negative....but it is reality.........unless someone has some pretty good pull here in our state with the PA Game Com.........I could never see this ever happening. Dustin I did see the point you were making and I think we are all saying the same thing here just in our own ways..........I like when someone says they have a good idea and that it could help our industry..so please dustin don't hold back on us now........

[Neeby]

Dustin dropped his post pounder off at my farm today we talked and yes virgil that is exactly what he meant!! And it sure makes sense! Here in carbon county a 140 inch buck is considered a trophy! I think hunters would even pay more for a license knowing 200 inch bucks were being stocked!! Why not? pheasants, trout, Shit !! even coyotes are being stocked here ,why not monster bucks!! And no one would argue raised deer are not safe, with all the inspections and testing etc! What a great idea coming from a dum koff like you!! LoL !! This is the best idea so far but will the Pa game commission play god and come up with some BS reason not to allow it ? probabley!! This is what they do!! I mean look how great the deer hunting is nowadays since there new rules and bag limits have been used, Hell !!! I can sit in the woods all day and maybe see one doe, no wonder young people arnt hunting as much anymore, there bored!!! Let um see a 200 inch buck on the first morning of deer season and I assure you things would change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BC Buck Trout]

Sorry for the delay, I'm finally done with my work and can sit down to deer stuff! Virgil you have the right idea, but it's a lot more complicated then local property owners stocking their backyards. The trout industry is also controlled by the Dep of Ag and if whitetail breeding was around as long trout breeding in our state we would not even be having this conversation! Every so many years the state puts out a bid to all licensed trout farmers to make bids on certain lakes and streams throughout the state that we would be willing to stock. The lowest bidder gets to supply that area with the states quota. It would have to be 100% under state control we couldn’t free lance deer in the same way we do with fish. Heck we don’t even need disease free certification of any kind unless we are crossing state borders! So how isn’t the department being hypocritical here?
It’s an idea that needs to be pursued whole heartedly, because it would make a big difference in the whitetail market as it would probably more than double our end market. There would have to be extreme requirements and special programs to be entered before you can join in the stocking program. It’s happened in the past in many different states and I do believe I read recent post about elk stockings in other states. Our whitetail herd in Pennsylvania has been decimated in the wake of our “antler restriction” program and we need to start bringing hunters back into the woods. The more we can get to do this the more will come to our high fence establishments as well.
Pennsylvania is one of the few states I believe that will be able to pull this off with no records of CWD, TB or Burc. With such a clean bill of health from our farmers it should be easy to organize specific rules and regulations for entering the stocking program. An accompanied idea should be the perusal of blood TB testing to get more farms certified in our state so they can be a part of a release program. I already have a list of realistic ideas to get this thing moving forward, but I will not waste my time to list everything on here until I see that there are enough people supporting my idea. If we push hard enough this can be a realistic thing… I mean if it’s alright to stock both native and non-native trout in our streams then why is it not alright to stock a native species back into our woods? We do have refuge programs so how can those be considered legal? Oh don’t get me started on this subject… have at it boys!

[virgil]

This may be just what we need. I know I was willing to back our other idea of promoting hunting preserves but not enough were willing to do anythng with it. This idea sounds even better so if you have a list of ideas to get this ball rolling lets hear it. The only way to get people interested in a idea is to lay you cards on the table and let us see what you got. This would be a good project for the PDFA this is something that could help all PA farmers and also any other states that would follow. Besides I do believe that alot of PA deer were brought in years back after the deppression from other states. So why not restock them now with better genetics and from deer right here in our own state.
This would bring lots of new hunters for both free range and high fence. By rekindling the love of hunting more people would start to hunt again and more youths would find it more interesting if they were seeing deer again. I now in my area it used to sound like a war zone couldn't even count all the shots but in the last few years it has gotten really quiet with a few shots here and there.
Might be a tuff battle with the insurance companies but anything is worth a try.


Dustin, you might want to start a new thread when posting the rest of your idea. A few of us seemed to have highjacked this one sorry.

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Sounds like a great idea but i bet would be hard to get through the depts higher ups.It also could be a double edge sword.If you start gettin 200 inch deer out in the wild it very well could end up hurting the preserve hunts.Either way it would be a great thing for the state of pa or any state for that matter!!!To see a couple 200in bucks walk out into a cornfield at dusk! OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cant get much better than that!!

[BC Buck Trout]

You boys are thinking to big... tone it down a little bit, we don't want to start pissing off the preserve owners so they think we're trying to steal their business... more tonight after work!

[virgil]

Any more info on this matter. when do we start stalking the wild with better genetics.