Lets Talk Nice

[Circle J Ranch]

Enough talk about a sluggish market already!

I want to know what are some of you all doing to adjust in this market. What good changes are you making to adapt your bussiness to todays market? More marketing? Bettering Genetics? Fixing Fence? What can you do to get the passion back for deer farming if you lost it? What are you excited about this breeding season? Whats going good for you so far in 2010? What do you have plan for 2011 that has you all fired up?

There are some good things going on for some of us. Lets hear em!

[Antlershed]

Despite the market being way down, i am enjoying every moment of deer farming right now. this was the first year i had enough animals to sell, and sales were great for me. I am so excited for the next few years, i have some super genetics coming in, deer are actually so cheap right now, even really good stuff, (just look at WE for exampe) so i am taking advantage of that and just praying that stuff starts going back up in price in the next few years, definately a time to buy. but i really just enjoy watching my herd every night and i cannot wait until i have pens full of monster bucks, I am getting so close i can vision it now. right now my biggest buck is probably about 190", so i really want bigger stuff. All I can do for the market right now is tell everyone i can ((at least those i know that hunt) to consider a high fence hunting, and how much fun it can be and just keep praying the Lord will continue to bless this industry.

[Circle J Ranch]

thats great im happy for you!

We are also having a great year bought our first power doe breed to Maxbo Velocity est. 240 to 260 @2 and she droped 4 fawns for us two doe and two buck. We are purchasing another doe this year bread to a Rold gold son named Head Gear est. 280 to 305 @ 2. Plus rearing up for our first AI this year and bought some pretty good straws. Dont know who we are going to breed with quite yet but we have a little bit of time.

We also sold all the deer we wanted to this year. The last bottle fed fawn goes sat. So its been a great year for us also. look forward to the next.

wish you and everyone all the best and good luck!

[IndependenceRanch]

Circle J Ranch,
I tell you what. I will join your discussion as I would much rather talk about the positives in this industry instead of hashing the same ol' same ol' over again.

Oh I don't know, things like despite one of the worst economic times in many many years and how many folks are still making money with their deer either in shooting stock or in breeding stock. Many industries it takes years to turn a profit and then some times it never does happen and they close their doors. I know of several who are having their best years ever the last couple of years since starting in deer. They have planned properly and made wise buying choices and have reaped the rewards of their hard work.

I won't speak any more for those folks, but I will share with you our fortunes the last couple of years.

Over 15 years ago my AWESOME wife (who I would give everything up for in a heartbeat) and I started with deer. We were fortunate to have folks who were very knowledgeable in growing whitetails to help us. Those folks did everything they could to guide us to the extent they could. I did have to see that they were more of the old school style of raising deer and therefore keep in mind that new ideas might be worth while looking into.

I combined many of the new ideas along with the old proven techniques and studied my butt off looking at what had worked for others. Not just in drugs and handling but in genetics and sales as well.

Back when CWD was all the rage;) and many were jumping ship or cutting back we took steps to increase the quality of our production by purchasing top notch does and semen, and we put in motion a plan to open a high fence hunting facility in partnership with another deer grower.

The investment we made in the hunting area has more than paid for its self and our decision to increase the quality of our breeding does was also a successful plan. Every year after making that decision we saw an increase in the size of the bucks we were producing. That increase in size of the bucks was great to see because it told me that what I was really trying to do was maybe working. My real intention with our herd was to increase the quality of our breeding does each and every year.

I can honestly say I have never planned a breeding to try and grow a big buck. My planning has always been to raise the strongest and most prolific herd of does possible. My theory was that along the way if your doing things right you will grow some big bucks.

In 2009 we had a 268 4/8" 2 year old buck. In 2010 he is estimated to be right around 300" and carries a massive frame with super long tines and the correctly placed extras to make him just what I was hoping for. He has a womb brother who has sort of been lingering in the shadows of him as well. That brother is a cleaner and wider version but still carries the same great pedigree and is estimated to be 210" to 220" at age 3 this year. Super long tines, wide, and a laid out style that resembles his grand father to a large extent. Which of course shows he is bred with predictability.

But through all this we continued to build the quality of the doe herd which has always been our herd strategy. I can say that in the fall of 2010 we are breeding the most amazing lineup of does to date. And I am continuing to stay focused on my original breeding plan by breeding specific does to specific bucks for a specific reason.

In the January of 2009 we entered our very first auction offering some of the very best we had to offer at that time. This was 14 years after entering the whitetail deer industry. That auction was a success for us and put us in just a little better position in the industry in terms of farm recognition. But more than anything it was a great feeling to see the rewards of the many years of hard work, investment and effort my wife and I had made. When our lots sold at that first auction I was not only proud for my wife and I, but also for those who had helped us get started so many years before. I only wish one of the major players that helped us could have lived to see it.

The following year we again participated at auction and done well. It also was a great season for us not only at the auction house, but also aside from the auctions because of a great partnership that we developed with Dream Ranch on one of our big bucks we produced. That partnership was as I see it yet another reward for our hard work and investments over the many years.

This auction season we are planning to again offer some outstanding lots for sale. Again some of the very best we have to offer, and they are even better than ever before. Just what they are, and in which sales each lot will be is still being debated, and is of course yet to be juried by the auction houses. I am however confident that these lots will be selected for entry to the sales, and that bidders will see the top quality being offered.

This posting may sound like a bunch of horn blowing hype to some. But what those folks need to realize is that Laurie and I started with 2 deer and one pen a half acre in size. We hand built the pens ourselves to save money, we didn't have big dollars to invest when we started. I recall the first time I told Laurie I wanted to buy a doe fawn for $800. She had a COW saying, "Are you nuts!?!? I am not buying a fawn for $800 just to have the thing die on us!!!"

My point is we started with nothing, from nothing, and worked our way to where we are today. Learning as we went. Back then vets would barely even talk to us deer folks about a deer much less did they know anything about treating a deer. We struggled and fought for everything we have accomplished over the past 15 years. We are not rich folks even though some will doubt this fact because of what I do now for a living and what Laurie does. But you have to remember we started in deer over 15 years ago and built it slowly to now.

What is the point to all this? Well it should be clear but to some it won't be so here is the long and short of it. If your new such as less than 5 years into deer be patient. Make wise buying choices. Never spend more than you can afford to lose because deer can and do die. Study and study some more. Vets don't know everything and most times they are just a place for you to bounce ideas around and then get the drugs you need to try and fix the issue your self. Deer are not all created alike. Some produce better than others and some are worth more than others. True this is not always the same thing. My advice is select what produces and what is worth more than the average, and use both to move your herd forward. If your rather new at this, don't try and reinvent the wheel. Take what is proven and develop it from there.

The economy is down. News flash!!! HaHaHa, like everyone didn't know this already. What this means is now is the time to buy to improve your herds. JR Ewing said the time to buy oil rigs was when the price of oil was down. Well folks oil is down now. That said buy WISELY please. Don't fall for smooth talking folks who are trying to sell what they have not had luck selling before now. Study the sales books and do your homework.

Plan carefully, buy wisely, keep costs low, but don't skimp on the important stuff. Don't save a dollar now to spend or waste two dollars later. Don't lose a valuable animal by skimping on the drugs you choose to use. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. Buy bloodlines that hold their value and produce time after time. Stay informed about the markets in your area and try and make alliances with those who can help you. And never be afraid to ask for help from those who have been there and done that.

There is money to be made in this industry to those who take their time and invest wisely. And there is a ton of fun to be had as well.

Enjoy yourself!

[Chuckerjim]

Thanks roger for all your words and thoughts. No truer word have ever been said. This has to be one of the best jurneys I have ever takin on!!! When all else fails in our every day travels there one thing that will alway releave stress and that's the deer pins. We all need to remember it's not always the bottom line but enjoy what we have and raise our deer because we love the lifestyle! Have fun !!!!! Jim

[Circle J Ranch]

great story Roger thanks for sharing may you, your family, and your herd have another great 15 years.

[Jack]

Roger you know I like you and Laurie and respect your opinion and love your ability to promote your farm.

My part in the discussion is pointing out what I think will make the industry stronger in this hard economic times. I would hope the boards of all State groups would address the hunting and industry image and put more emphases on this area. With that said I’ll move on to what I also love.

I still wake up each morning thinking about deer and breeding projects even after all these years. Matching pedigrees up to produce that next big buck. The excitement and love for this industry has not lost its shine. I have my breeding set up for 2011 on deer. My wife thinks I’m nuts.

Even though we have been attacked and lost our harvest facilities and some of our business because of the RMEF, Wildlife Federation and our own DNR I still have deer and elk. I did not let those that were against this industry and wanted to kill the industry take this away from me as others did. Guess that is why I'm the only deer farmer in the State. I raise them because they make my day and will till I can no longer take care of my animals.

As some of you know my mule deer project has produced a white pied female fawn. I can see white mule deer bucks on my ranch in the future. I’m very excited about this project. Semen collection from great mule deer is another interesting project I really enjoy.

I have Rocky Mountain goats and I’m the only person who has collected semen from wild harvested goats and AI’d that semen into my goat herd. I did eleven females and got nine that took. I’m very proud of that.

I really love watching the big bulls bugling this time of year. Gathering up their girls and showing how tough they are with their pushing and shoving.

Watching the big bucks is one of my greatest pleasures. Meeting and talking with others in the industry and making some very good friends along the way make's life fun.
The deer and elk industry is a fine life and I’m proud to be in this industry.

[IndependenceRanch]

Did anyone else that was watching on-line or in person during the PA sale find it cool when Dave Griffith had his grandson up in the front of the room with him?
I was watching on-line and found that really awesome. When they were up there talking I thought to myself what other industry is so much a family centered way of life. Truly an American values way of living is one key feature of the whitetail industry. I really enjoyed seeing that:)

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Yup it was real cool to see and even better to see it in person!!!Will got up before their lot came up and said some great words about what great things dave has done for the pa deer farmers and the deer bizz as a whole!!!Was a great thing to see and hear and from what little bit i know of them very well deserved!! Just to let ya know i had jake
griffith and his buddy dustin up here turkey hunting with me and there will be some class coming out of that farm and family for years to come!!!

[Circle J Ranch]

The miss and I where talking about that over supper sat. I to thought it was great.
Having four kids of my own and raising them in the outdoors and also around deer farming i bealive it has built great charactor in them all. there ages range from 7 to 2 years of age and they are always willing to jump in and unload Alfalfa, bags of feed, or even bottle feed with out being asked. I think its just great having them be able to be apart of this thing with us in a age of vidio games and tv if you know what i mean!

[Circle J Ranch]

I was told not to forget the women! and all that they do in the pens and behind the seens. Ladies thank you for all the time you put into us guys. The endless discusions on breeding, fawning, and feed. But mostly for following us on our dreams and being apart of our lives!( and tuggen on the chain when we get out of control)

[skip]

This is also one of the talking points we relay to the Senators and Congressmen on the NADeFa D.C. Fly In.How Deer Farming is allowing families to stay together on the small farms in Rual America.I too have 2 boys Chip and Adam.I look forward to the day I can stand in front of the bidders w/ my grandsons and tell about our farm and animals.
Is this a great Country or what?

[Wisdom]

The positive side of a down market as others have commented is now a person has the opportunity to purchase quality deer cheep. This week I purchased a tame three year old buck that scored 294BC buck with 16 and 17 ½ inch tines and a 24” inside spread. (scored by an official scorer) The best part is it scored almost 250 typical. I am excited to breed with this deer. It has short beams 25” and short G1s 7’ but should cross well with our does that have long G1s and 30” beams. Is a 270” typical buck possible? I am hopeful. That is what keeps the passion alive for me in the deer industry.

[Wisdom]

Again I say now is the time for deer farmers who have been in the business for many many years to purchase quality cheep does so they do not have to feed five year old shooters 120BC. And then expect hunting ranches to adjust their prices according to the amount of feed that went into them instead of what is on their heads.

[wildobsessionwhitetails]

andy you couldnt of said it any better now is the time to prosper with better deer if you still have deer that cant produce good shooters by age 3 i know 2 years ago thats what i did and im very excited to see what next year brings as ive had my best crop of yearlings ever they might not be 200" yearlings but all are 8 points or better my bigest a 14 point all have a clean look what seems to be what the hunters want with just enough xtras being spit brows or split g tines also 2 of them have drops as well as my 2 year old breeder rockys power point who should score 200" thanks to allen frey for allowing us to purchasse him as a yearling we are also in the process of adding some more does and possibly a new breeder to our program as well. this being said this is what keeps my wheels turning and me happy good luck to all and hopefully we can enjoy whats left of the year and look foward to next year or the up and coming breeding season

[Wisdom]

Wildobessionwhitetails What a positive attitude you have. Your eagerness to move forward even gets me excited. I have never got any where when looking back word. Keep looking forward
May your new genetics be a blessing to you

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Wisdom look on the bright side.next year you might be able to buy his now hot yearlings as two year olds for $350.Dennis is right you guys sit here and harp on how bad the deer bizz is and then talk up how cheap deer are now and how you just made a great buy from some pour guy that cant make the feed bill with his deer.If you wanted to make this a better place you could have gave the guy atleast what the shooters were worth but it sounds like you had a big smile on while you ripped the pour guy off!!!
Have fun with your new breeder while that guy takes down his pens!!!!!

[wildobsessionwhitetails]

as for me selling my yearlings for 350.00 that wont happen not only are my deer a hobby and a joy to watch grow but i have a place for them to go in the end where there will be a return heres how i see it a animals like a car or house its only worth what someones willing to pay for it and with the way the economy is maybe the deer are just getting what fair market allows for it to get 2 years ago i paid good money for the deer i purchased to turn my dreams around but i did not spend my life savings or retirement on it neither for those people that did i feel for you right now its seems like the deer bussiness is like a stock market when the markets high you sell high when its not you sell low and the guys who can afford to continue in this industry should better there herd with hopes to carry on some things in life appreciate in value while others depreciate if you can raise bigger deer at 2 than raising 130" deer at thre you should still make profit everything in lifes a gamble roll the dice get a 7 or 11 your a winner sorry if i went off track or offended anyone but thats how i feel choose wiseley before making a purchased and if you dont have as good quality of deert to take you to another step then nows the time top buy if you can buy a doe fawn or a mature doe at a reasonsable price then buy dont think negative stay positive thats the only way to get through the rough times and for those that dont know or are still sleeping WAKE UP the economy is in a down fall right now

[Circle J Ranch]

If you wanted to make this a better place you could have gave the guy atleast what the shooters were worth but it sounds like you had a big smile on while you ripped the pour guy off!!!
Have fun with your new breeder while that guy takes down his pens!!!!![/QUOTE]

I have never bought a deer from some one i didnt know. And were im from we build relationships witch means we will probably return and buy another deer from the same person in time. I think its a win win. They get rid of inferior stock i better my genetics! I still talk to everyone we purchased from last year. But did i pay wha the animal was worth i would like to think not!Its like buying a house thats marketed for 200,000 and you get it for 180,000 you got a good buy with some equity right.

So i say great buy stay exited, keep building realtionships, and get them 130 class shooters at 2.

[Jack]

Come on guys ripped off. I've been in the deer business thirty years and in other business's another twenty five. I've always established the retail price of products. I have never in my life had someone say that's too good of a deal and I will pay you more.
I don't expect there is one person out there that would have given this guy more and still taken all his deer. There is no one at fault here. The price was requested and someone paid it. That's called business.

News flash business is bad but then it's bad for many product producing industries. Most of us are still selling our product, sure prices are down but they will come up as we beat this recession. Yes some of the problem is caused by this recession. But our real cause is a lack of need for our product.

I'm going to harp again on changing our industry direction which we can make better for all of us by putting more effort into our harvest facilities image with good advertising nationally. Any business that needs customers does advertising. If a business has an image problem they advertise. Where has our advertising been? Look how well our breeder market has been with advertising. If that same effort was placed on our harvest market and done for the last ten years, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

[ddwhitetails]

Amen Jack......you are right on track!!!

[ddwhitetails]

Guys....everyone makes good points here......but we can bicker and bicker and it all comes down to the same thing........we have to many deer and the demand for them is not there........it does not matter the size of your Bucks right now........there are not enough Hunters on board with the High fenced hunts at this time to buy up all of our deer......the only option we have is to promote the high fenced hunts and win over the Hunters. We do this....the preserves sell more hunts.........and need our deer. The breeder side of the market has peaked to say the least........New farmers fed this market.......I don't believe this can continue or atleast I hope not as we have enough deer already and new farms just mean more deer. Let's focus on how to fix this issue and not point blame on why its happened. just a thought....

[Jack]

Took the words right out of my mouth Dennis. We don't have to place blame or attack anyone. Times changed so very fast in our demand verses supply, you might say there was a complete turn around in this situation and we now have more supply than demand.

Our direction should be what will help make our market healthy again? It is so obvious to me that our industry has not attended to our end market for our product. Nothing has changed in the way the industry has handled this part of the harvest industry for the last ten years. Please fellow deer breeders help make the move to try to fix this industry problem by making the industry advertise our harvest facilities. What will it hurt to try to promote this part of the industry. I view it as a sound business practice that might save the shooter market. I sure don't want to continue the direction we have been on in handling the harvest part of our industry.

[wildobsessionwhitetails]

not to be negative but if some guys have a surplus of shooters right now and cant move them then save yourself some money in feed vet bills etc by cutting back on your breeding program and not flood your own pens with deer you cant move i know alot of guys thast held on to there shooters last year in hopes to get better money for there deer this year but now you will only loose more money as you have another year of feed in this deer so unless you want to keepo loosing more money then maybe you should let some of them deer go and get something out of themif you r not tb tested thats something to look into getting done ive had people from missori,forida and ohio call wanting to by shooters off me i guess they got my number from a directory if i can find the number for the guy in florida i know he was paying good money like jack said who wouldnt pass up a good deal im sure the guy told andy this is what i want and thats what he paid someone told me the other day they new a guy that bought 2 200" bucks for i beleve 300.00 a peice did the guy selling care obviously not i know me id rather watch him grow till he dies before i sold for 300 but tell me if yoo could buy that deer you wouldnt your fulll of ---- as far as when you go to an auction and buy a deer or a farm and buy a deer if you didnt think you were getting a deal you wouldnt have bought it if you buy semen on whitetail exchange for say 250.00 but off the farm its 1500 then i quess its shame on you shouldve bought it off the farm or have given the owner more than what you paid for it so you can help the industry stay a float so one way or another we are all quilty of getting a good deal

[Circle J Ranch]

Robert,

I know you and have always respected your honesty. Hell we bought our first deer off of you and what a boy he is. You also are running a muck with the Pies this past year from my understanding. What do have planed for next year? Breeding just for them or the whites? Here is the latest pic of the buck fawn we bought from you 2 years ago.

[Four Seasons Whitetails]

Let me ask this...If there is to many shooters and they are only worth crap then why is it that it will still cost a guy thousands of dollars to hunt a deer that the preserve just paid hundreds for?????It cant work both ways if a 130 is worth $350 why does it still cost a hunter 2 grand to have it...

[Wisdom]

To everyone interested I am sorry you misunderstood the purpose of why I typed what was read. #1 I did not need the man’s shooters nor did I want them. I have more deer than I need at this time #2 The owner priced the shooters to another person and he did not want the shooters. When a seller prices deer or anything else and another person the purchaser said yes. Why is the buyer is at fault when he did not set the price. How many of you breeders would turn down a straw of Max Boe semen for $1000. If you bought it at that price would you be guilty of taking advantage of the seller when seller set the price.
The reason I put this on the forums is because for years I have been telling the deer industry we need more hunters to harvest the shooters we are all producing to ensure a strong future and maintain prices. I do not want to be the one telling everyone the sky is falling but for some breeders in Pa. it sure as hell is. Some breeders think they are locked in with a hunting ranch and they will by all their shooters. Well rethink that. What if enough breeders in your state that are not selling their shooters get discouraged and decide to quit and cut their losses. What if these breeders when to the ranch you are selling your shooters to and said, I want to sell you all my deer cheep, do me a favor and take them. Once the ranch has enough shooters there is no market for your shooters.
How many of you have ever went to a deer auction and got a deal and when paying for it said to the casher. That’s to cheep let me give you another $1000
Wake up it is a buyer’s market. Supply and demand rules all of our lives. Cheaper prices will determine who sells their product and who sits on them for another year.
For years my words have been falling on deaf ears to advertize the hunting end of OUR industry. Wake up breeders or more of you will be selling your shooters for $350.

[wildobsessionwhitetails]

once again couldnt agree with you anymore i pretty much said the same thing in an earlier post with purchasing deer from auction or farm and buying semen at a good buy from w.e. were all quilty of getting a good deal guys no one complains about when a guy purchases a new breeder and doubles the price for semen or has someone partner with them to make more of what they got because of the persons name they partner with so lets not just single out one person at the end all we have is each other to try making things work we have no big goverment to help us so lets get along and continue to work as a whole to make things right not fight over jealousy or those who are making money number one the market is flooded alot of people thought they woud get rich because of seeing what deer or semen were doing at auctions and thought they to would get the same in return for there animals the guys who are making money started at the bottom like the rest of us and earned theyre way to the top and others bought there way to the top this is nothing different than any other business but as a whole we can make it better

[Wisdom]

I am speaking to a select few when I say this. It is time some of you guys get your heads out of your ass and quit pointing fingers at each other and the hunting ranches. What benefit is it to a hunting ranch operator who is tired of working 80 hours a week and tired of dealing with hundreds of hunters, gutting and skinning dead animals. If there is a strong completive shooter market the ranches will have to pay more for our deer. Do you not realize by encouraging the industry to advertise the end product me and all other ranches will be forced by the law of supply and demand to pay higher prices. I care so much for this industry I am willing to pay higher prices if this comes to pass.
Until then, you decide to sell your deer for market price, feed them another year or buy a couple of freezers

[Jack]

Mike,
Yes you are right on the retail price of hunts. They haven't come down very much. The problem is our supply is so high with shooters this makes for a harvest facility buyers market. There is always guys that will sell their shooters and take whatever. Desperation on moving their animals has caused this problem. Until we increase the market for shooters or less people raise those extra shooter that caused this situation we will have this buyers market for a long time. Supply and demand does rule this industry like any other commodity industry.

Like Andy, I have tried to get the industry to advertise our harvest facilities more aggressively for the last ten years. Three of us in the Montana harvest market did put out thirty thousand in advertising money when Montana had harvest facilities. We felt it did help the industry image. I'm only sorry we couldn't get the Montana organization to get on board with this idea. Maybe Montana would still have harvest facilities if they had.

[Wisdom]

it`s hard to stay off this fourm.no good deal anymore. but this it what im talking about.thanks matthew,your are a kind person and a good friend.these bucks.$300 an $400 so somebody can kill at a reserve for $$$ many,many times more.i had a good year with white an piebald fawn.they seam to go better at bottle time for me.ontill that gets flooded.i don`t have many years left in this rat race.the best to all of you.kingdom acres.

Robert in most cases the hunting ranches are not setting the prices. The breeders are.

On another note. A breeder called me the other day and he has 37 deer for sale some are white, some brown and mixed pies. Since you did so well. He priced them at $6500 for all. I do not need them. Here is your chance to purchase his whole herd for $175 a peace and help a fellow breeder out. If you feel you are taking advantage of him offer him another $25 to $50 on top of the $175 I am sure he would be grateful. But beware if you do buy them, some people will still think you took advantage of him

[Circle J Ranch]

gentlemen, i dont mean to be a jerk here but there are hundreds of other threads on here that have the same discussion over and over again. And i now know it it hard to start a thread with out this topic coming into it. However and what ever the reasons we are all doing this thats what i want to talk about! its not be turning a blind eye or hideing from the truth. The market is down we need to do something. Thats on threads by others. I just wanted to get some conversation going about why we are doing this, why its worth sticken it out. Why we all dothis thing we call deer farming. So if you lost that spark and fire, Reading some one elses post about being excited migh give you that motivation to keep on going, keep on fighting. I have not made anyone money on my deer i like many others each your throw money at there deer. But i dont think anyless of my farm, your farm, our our industry. if there is never to be any money in deer ever again i will keep going. I love it injoy it. But for someone to come on here and try to bring someone down about what they are doing, the improvements they are making, and the things they are excited about is beyond me. If you are having that hard of a time doing this thing called deer farming. Im sorry maybe its just not for you! BUT dont crap on someone elses dreams because your is a nightmare.

In incourage you all like many others already on this thread have, find something about deer farming that keeps you going, we already know its not the market, what is it no mater how small or how big share it here. Maybe your story can inspire some one else. Leave the other stuff out.

[ddwhitetails]

To everyone interested I am sorry you misunderstood the purpose of why I typed what was read. #1 I did not need the man’s shooters nor did I want them. I have more deer than I need at this time #2 The owner priced the shooters to another person and he did not want the shooters. When a seller prices deer or anything else and another person the purchaser said yes. Why is the buyer is at fault when he did not set the price. How many of you breeders would turn down a straw of Max Boe semen for $1000. If you bought it at that price would you be guilty of taking advantage of the seller when seller set the price.
The reason I put this on the forums is because for years I have been telling the deer industry we need more hunters to harvest the shooters we are all producing to ensure a strong future and maintain prices. I do not want to be the one telling everyone the sky is falling but for some breeders in Pa. it sure as hell is. Some breeders think they are locked in with a hunting ranch and they will by all their shooters. Well rethink that. What if enough breeders in your state that are not selling their shooters get discouraged and decide to quit and cut their losses. What if these breeders when to the ranch you are selling your shooters to and said, I want to sell you all my deer cheep, do me a favor and take them. Once the ranch has enough shooters there is no market for your shooters.
How many of you have ever went to a deer auction and got a deal and when paying for it said to the casher. That’s to cheep let me give you another $1000
Wake up it is a buyer’s market. Supply and demand rules all of our lives. Cheaper prices will determine who sells their product and who sits on them for another year.
For years my words have been falling on deaf ears to advertize the hunting end of OUR industry. Wake up breeders or more of you will be selling your shooters for $350.

Wisdom,
I surely do hope we wake up...and yes you have been pushing for us to market our High Fenced Hunts as I have supported this as well.........to argue that you or anyone else is bad for getting a good deal is silly........this is going to be the norm very, very soon if we don't take this to the next level!

[ddwhitetails]

it`s hard to stay off this fourm.no good deal anymore. but this it what im talking about.thanks matthew,your are a kind person and a good friend.these bucks.$300 an $400 so somebody can kill at a reserve for $$$ many,many times more.i had a good year with white an piebald fawn.they seam to go better at bottle time for me.ontill that gets flooded.i don`t have many years left in this rat race.the best to all of you.kingdom acres.


Robert,
With all due resect and I mean this.......we are all frustrated and all have deers filling our pens.....but taking the stance that you are is going to do nothing to fix the issue we face in the Industry. People are going to continue to get good deals as farms close their doors. All we can do is focus on what is going to help us all..........and that is bringing more end users into the market.

[Wisdom]

Sorry Matt
I think you started a great thread to keep us focused on why we started raising deer. No matter what happens I will never regret breeding whitetails and I am so thankful for the awesome relationships with others that have evolved.

[IndependenceRanch]

This afternoon I returned home after being gone working since Sept 3rd. After being met by the best wife anyone could ever ask for, and then getting a bite to eat I went outside with Laurie to sort of relax and spend some time with my deer.
It always is such a relaxing feeling having all the girls standing around me wanting to be petted and looking for peanuts. Also looking at the boys with their big racks and starting to act a little rutty on such a nice peaceful evening. It simply doesn't get any better than this:)
After flying more than 45,000 miles and crossing every time zone in the world at least twice, and hauling all sorts of products to several different countries, it is nice to have such a great lady and my awesome deer to come home to. It was a trying schedule this month, and it hit it's worst about midnight Alaskan time when things got a touch hairy during a mechanical issue during approach to landing in less than favorable weather.

I love my wife and I love raising deer. It gives me a great feeling of peace and comfort:)

[Circle J Ranch]

Guys there is no sorry's needed here. Welcome home Roger, another great post! You know i have been told its not work if you injoy doing it, and its not your passion if you wouldnt do it for free! I love this bussiness and all the people in it.

And is it not what its all about, great Family and good friends togeather on this wild adventure called Deer Farming! Have fun you all, stay fired up, and share the excitement with someone else.

[ddwhitetails]

Guys there is no sorry's needed here. Welcome home Roger, another great post! You know i have been told its not work if you injoy doing it, and its not your passion if you wouldnt do it for free! I love this bussiness and all the people in it.

And is it not what its all about, great Family and good friends togeather on this wild adventure called Deer Farming! Have fun you all, stay fired up, and share the excitement with someone else.

Mathew,



Great post.....I love my deer and everything about them they do bring peace and joy all year around......if it's not watching racks growing it's watching fawns being born.......without a doubt it is an awesome business to be involved in.!!

[Circle J Ranch]

The big thing that turns me on about deer farming is the the people and the structure. I have my on business that i have had to build from scratch, and we to are struggling. But deer farming has national groups, state groups, this forum, and all these great people in it. Everyone willing to lend a hand and help with questions. I wish other business came with such an owners manual if you know what i mean. Where else can you go to jsut type in a queston and get 80 different ansewers.

So i tell you in a down market we all should be thankfull to have each other to lean on and to inspire because it beats the alternitive of being in another business buy yourself with no one or no ansewers in times like these

so i do thank you all

[Wisdom]

Robert
Those are sure some gold nuggets to ponder and take to heart. Thank you for sharing.

[Circle J Ranch]

Thanks Robert good stuff ol' boy. And thanks to everyone who has posted positive stuff on here. I Know when times are tuff its hard to find something to smile about. But sometimes the smallest thought our word can turn your world right side up. Thanks to everyone who played along.

I would love to here some more so keep'er going you all. Look forward to the next good thought

[WhitetailWoman]

It's good to hear everyone talking about the good parts of deer farming! Hubby and I have been in this a little over a year. And with all the talk of the economy being down and everything had me worried. But I would never get out of the business, just b/c we love it so much. We have five kids ranging from 9 to 3 months and my kids love it! My son is so excited to go out with dad and help do things and my girls love the fawns! I get so tickled at seeing them outside rather than being inside playing video games or on the computer! Recently we were all outside and I heard the bobcat start up, then my husband comes around the corner and i realize that he wasn't the one on the thing! He let our son drive it (mind you it was a very sort distance and all flat and we could see him) But i was having a heart attack! I booked it to where he was driving it to feed the deer, he got out with a big smile on his face..... needless to say i couldn't be to mad lol all the while my husband was laughing at me. I told him not to let him get hurt or he'd be in big trouble! (i know he never would) The part i didn't know, he had been teaching him for weeks to drive it! My point is, video games and all that silly stuff doesn't make my son that happy, not as happy as driving a bobcat a few feet to feed the deer. I hope one day my kids will want to do the farming as we have.
Best of luck to everyone!

[Circle J Ranch]

i agree with the hole game deal. Our kids are the same way. They have great passion for the outdoors. I never have to tell them to get off the chair and do something. Hey and lets face it with out deer farming i would probably be sitting there! Our family injoys it as well. Its a blast to see them out there with the fawns and all.

May i just say it is great to see a women comment on this thread also, most of them get dirty right beside us men. With out them it wouldnt be a family affair. Thank you for sharring

[WhitetailWoman]

i agree with the hole game deal. Our kids are the same way. They have great passion for the outdoors. I never have to tell them to get off the chair and do something. Hey and lets face it with out deer farming i would probably be sitting there! Our family injoys it as well. Its a blast to see them out there with the fawns and all.

May i just say it is great to see a women comment on this thread also, most of them get dirty right beside us men. With out them it wouldnt be a family affair. Thank you for sharring

Thanks! I heistate often on posting things b/c there have been times that men didn't like me speaking up lol but everyone on here has been very nice and extremely helpful!!! I love being outdoors and i love being right beside my husband and kids working on something we ALL enjoy!!!

[Circle J Ranch]

As men we might not always want your input, hate when your right, and struggle with admitting it. LOL. But i dont think there's not one of us who could do it with out the love of a women. I thank mine, you, and everyones women for supporting us guys ( it cant be easy sometimes) along this journey.

"Behind every good Man is a Great Women"

[Wisdom]

As men we might not always want your input, hate when your right, and struggle with admitting it. LOL. But i dont think there's not one of us who could do it with out the love of a women. I thank mine, you, and everyones women for supporting us guys ( it cant be easy sometimes) along this journey.

"Behind every good Man is a Great Women"

Matt you are so right. It is almost 12:00 AM and my wife is still outside sorting out breeder bucks. She loves to sort our deer. I would not want to be in this business without her help. God has blessed me with a true help mate.

[ddwhitetails]

Just ONE of the many reasons I LOVE deer farming!!!!!

[Headley]

The Nice words that you can say about deer farming in Alabama is
Alabama Game Breeder Association. The best thing since cornbread.
Know that's nice

[Circle J Ranch]

We just passed our first round of TB and Bruce. testing today on our way to certification! I know now why some of you all get stressed out during this part of deer farming!

[ddwhitetails]

Not fun at all!!!

[dcwhitetails]

Good to hear from ya hope all is good .i feel some better but lost hearing you gotta shout, but i wont get mad;.:D. DC

[Circle J Ranch]

ok you all all is going well, my first crisis this year is who im ging to breed with. Its still up in the air at this point and to be honest with ya i probably wont make the call untill the day of AI.

Is this common? Has everyone stressed like this before there first AI?

Still excited and cant wait to do it. Just over thinken alot LOL

[my2girls]

ddwhitetails: That picture is waayyyyy toooo cute (fawn w/ boy)!

[B101490]

Hello Mathew, Thought I would comment on your deer testing, yes I know what you are talking about when it comes to testing, I did it for the first time last year and when those deer are all laying on the ground and don't know if they are all going to wake back up or not is very stressfull.

Sincerely Dennis
Woodside Premier Whitetails

[Circle J Ranch]

yes, it was very stressfull. We are currently in the process of making our own drop shoot and let me just say that is a pain in it self. But it will make the next testing easier and hopefully less stressful for us and the deer. I dont know the norm on drop shoots if people usualy purchase or make ther own but next time im buying!!!!LOL

[Circle J Ranch]

Its a great day! After weeks of bidding on items on no reserve Wendesday. I finally won!!
I have my straw for AI this year and am very Excited a 200 inch yearling ( a Maxbo Son, 1/2 Brother to Jessie James, Noble Son) I can finally move forward here and now have one less thing to stress about!