New concept: Airlifting Deer without tranquing

[WindyRidgeWhitetails]

We just received word from the radio that our wonderful WI DNR is going to capture wild deer from a helicopter with nets, airlift them and then radio-collar them! Why? The radio station said it was for purposes of finding out why there's less bucks and when the does are actually giving birth.

Hmmm...they actually think the deer will survive this? Wish I knew where I could film them doing this! If they do miraculously survive the airlift, I think it would great to film and witness the person who plans to remove them from the net. I sure hope if a deer cuts through the net with their hooves any people below have insurance.

Check it out yourself, hope this link will work for you. Amazing! And taxes pay these people to do this. I want my money back!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2659302/posts

A phone call to a local deer farm would tell them their late/longer hunting seasons cause both lack of bucks and later fawning! But, hey, that's just called an educated guess off the top of a deer farmer's head!

[WindyRidgeWhitetails]

I think I'll volunteer so I can learn everything about a deer like the DNR :rolleyes:

http://dnr.wi.gov/news/DNRNews_article_Lookup.asp?id=1646

[SJames]

Why don't they just hire some deer farmers who know what they are doing with radio telemetry darts and save the deer a bunch of stress and the tax payers a bunch of money! GEEEEEZZZZ! :(:(:(

I wander what that costs?

They use those here in Missouri to catch baiters and count ducks!

I think the WI DNR likes to show off. The CWD debacle was quite the comedy! A very sad comedy but a comedy none the less. Every time I am in a CWD meeting I hear the comment. "Well, at least thanks to Wisconsin, we know what NOT to do!" :D

Looks like they are stepping up to the plate again! ;)

[buckeyewta]

Sonunds like a bunch of BS to me.

[richie0033]

They might have less bucks because of the bright idea to kill all deer during the cwd scare. Lol

[jamie]

I am pretty sure thats the stupidist thing i have ever seen :confused: But maybe it will help the economy :D;)

[G O Whitetails]

As a helicopter pilot I would not want to transport a live undrugged deer. Sounds like a accident waiting to happen. A fellow pilot friend of mine was contracted by the state of Tenn. to shoot pigs out of his helicopter. He got $1350 an hour, take that times 8 hours a day, plus ferry time, you do the math.

[sharkey]

Here in OZ, the royal society for the prevention of cruelty to animals is a statutory authority,with the same powers to arrest & prosecute as the police.If I proposed & attempted such a scheme, exposing animals to such" terror",(without LANs),I would expect to be pushed face down on my driveway,fitted with some new bracelets & a big black gun shoved in the back of my head.To have approval for this type of research don't they need approval from an ethics committee,we can't take photos of wildlife for research without ethics committee approval. Cheers Sharkey

[Wild Rivers Whitetails]

These are apparently people who sit at desks and do computer models of things - kind of like those that said our entire wild herd would be devastated by CWD. Despite all their shooting in the CWD zone, there are now more deer there than ever - go figure!!! Apparently CWD wasn't too devastating. The rest of the state has been down in deer population - maybe things like wolves and bears perhaps???? After all, a short time ago DNR admitted their bear numbers were off - that we had TWICE AS MANY as they thought! Wolves have been multiplying like nuts and now they have FINALLY admitted we may have cougars in WI. If this were private company they would have been fired!!

[IndependenceRanch]

The problem Gary and Jane is that we taxpayers foot the bill but we don't have the ability to fire them. All we seem to be able to do is grab our ankles and say... thank you, can I have some more?:o
I'm just glad they came up with this plan. I would hate to think the state was maybe going to stop going deeper in debt spending money on crazy ideas. What would we have to keep us warm all winter if we weren't hot under the collar from the way the government spends our taxes?:rolleyes:
Now if we could just get everyone in other states to send us a thank you card for the state of WI again leading the way on how NOT to do things:p

[WindyRidgeWhitetails]

Hunters in our area complain A LOT about how kids are bored to death when parents take them out hunting because they haven't been seeing any deer. I can see where video games would be more fun! DNR would hate to admit they counted farmed deer from the helicopters, miscalculated the herd size or let too many cougars/bears/wolves lose. What's happening is fewer hunters go out in the woods. Our family of four bow and gun hunted for years. This year there was only 2 bow licenses bought and I'm pretty sure it was the last year. Not just because of the lack of deer, because of the DNR's politics.

My former employer (attorney) had a wolf stare her down in her own back yard - the wolf wasn't scared of her at all. She's an animal lover but she said that was SCARY! She called the DNR to warn them that she were a child the wolf wouldn't have been hungry any longer. They said, "It wasn't a wolf, maybe a wild dog." She returned the comment with explaining who she was and that she would be the first to be on the case if a wolf attacks a person/child, she knows it was a wolf. The DNR just simply cannot replace Mother Nature.

Back to the main topic...I can't believe they would transport deer without tranquing but the radio said that. Even if they do, I'm sure we're not the only deer farmers out there that a deer has woke up before they were supposed to. I never thought about the effect of a frantic deer on a helicopter's balance...THAT'S scary!

[SJames]

Roger,

Where do I send the card? I'd really like to send a "Thank You" to them. Missouri has plenty of its own problems with what its doing to our own herd (and that sure helps our preserves) but Wisconsin takes the cake! I bet the preserves are looking pretty good right now up there! ;)

[Awesome Antlers]

Sam,

Have you considered moving your operation to the Great State of Iowa?????????????????:p:):D;)

[G O Whitetails]

Just to let you guys know, we had our first case of a wild deer with CWD in SE Minnesota. Check KTTC.com , I'm sure us deer farmers will be blamed for this by the DNR and the Minn. Deer Hunters Assn. This should make it easier to open preserves in Minn. and to ship deer to other states. Minnesota has tested more than 32,000 deer shot since 2002. I'm sure if you looked long enough you could find gold in a fish bowl. The paper said that the DNR CWD Response Team has been deployed. There first step will be to do an aerial survey to see how many deer are in the Pine Island area. They are then going to do sample collections [shootings]. Maybe your Wisc. DNR can come over here and practice netting deer from a helicopter and see if they can keep their death loss under 1% like they claim,[ since they don't have a live test for CWD,yet], would be good practice for them. Gary Olson

[SJames]

Barry,

I would consider moving to IA but most of my clients are from out of state and IA doesn't think much of people from out of state. :p

While I don't agree with the way Missouri manages the wild herd at least they let anybody hunt who wants to buy a tag :D:D:D

You walked into that one my friend!:o

[CurtisLloyd]

first day working for ( insert name of Jurisdiction) DNR .... supervisor walks up to you, hands you an object , you look at it and he says...."Here's your sign"

[G O Whitetails]

Check out Utube Extreme Helicopter Animal Capture.

[Wild Rivers Whitetails]

Like I said earlier, if a private company was this incompetent they'd be fired! We wouldn't be continuing to employ and PAY them for this work. We have a new governor and a new DNR secretary as of Jan. 1, hopefully they will shake up this agency.

[Capchaman]

Guys down here in South Texas and up in the Northern areas we catch both Whitetail and Mule Deer as well as other species, buy means of a Helicopter and Net gun. The deer are blind folded and hog tied, we then place them in carry bags and sling them to a processing location. Yes net gun capture is a stressful form capture but when done correctly and professionally like we do mortality rates are next to zero. On a good day we can catch 60 deer in about 4 - 5 hours. Each season we literally catch between 1500 and 2000 deer. In many situations darting from the ground would takes months and is just not practical. Depending on the terrain darting from the helicopter would be way to slow and would make the cost per hour and per deer extremely expensive. Helicopter net gun capture and slinging deer beneath the helicopter was pioneered in New Zealand over 40 years ago and has proven to be a very effected form of capture.

Here are a few examples of South Texas deer capture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slCsv2NsaQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDUit-E5Jo8

[ANTLER VALLEY]

Guys down here in South Texas and up in the Northern areas we catch both Whitetail and Mule Deer as well as other species, buy means of a Helicopter and Net gun. The deer are blind folded and hog tied, we then place them in carry bags and sling them to a processing location. Yes net gun capture is a stressful form capture but when done correctly and professionally like we do mortality rates are next to zero. On a good day we can catch 60 deer in about 4 - 5 hours. Each season we literally catch between 1500 and 2000 deer. In many situations darting from the ground would takes months and is just not practical. Depending on the terrain darting from the helicopter would be way to slow and would make the cost per hour and per deer extremely expensive. Helicopter net gun capture and slinging deer beneath the helicopter was pioneered in New Zealand over 40 years ago and has proven to be a very effected form of capture.

Here are a few examples of South Texas deer capture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slCsv2NsaQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDUit-E5Jo8


As I understand it, helicopter capture via net is possible in TX due to the short trees/brush/sage (low rainfall) and would not be nearly as practical where trees grow taller than 15' unless you could push some deer out of the timber and into an open space....

[sharkey]

Capchaman,yes deer have been caught using "gotcha guns" in NZ for nearly four decades.So it seems reasonable they should know a thing or two.Here is a quote from our Kiwi mates, "When the animal dies after being caught in the net it can still be sold as feral venison.You use the net because you don't have to wait for the drugs to take effect,if you miss with the net you shoot the deer with a rifle,sling it,reload the net & on to the next".Deer which were valuable (hinds) were given Fentaz(10mg fentanil\80mg azaperone) as Rompun (xylazine) didn't prevent PCM. This was all on red deer not whitetail,& it certainly was not research.I would love to see some published data on the survival rates.

[Jack]

Great way to catch deer in Texas. Terrain plays a big part in the catching of deer I can see that for sure. Unless Wisconsin has changed from all those big oak trees, maples and brush I think the helicopter boys will have a hard time catching deer. Even in a corn field it looks like it will be a hard job. I would love to see this program in action in Wisconsin as it will probably be a joke. I hope no one gets hurt.

[Capchaman]

Yes it certainly is more difficult to catch deer in oak covered terrain!! but it can be done provided there are open areas to move the deer to, if it is just wall to wall oak, with very little opens areas, it will get very expensive!!! with not many deer being caught.

Capture Myopathy on deer being caught by means of net gun capture depends on many factors certain species of deer are more susceptible to CM than other, how hard and how long the deer are pushed by the helicopter before being netted play a big part in CM. Once the deer is netted, the quicker one can get to the animal blind fold it and administer either Azaperone, Haloperidol, or Zuclopenthixol acetate and restrain it the better the chances are that you can prevent CM.

As mention net gun capture has come along way since the days of the original "Gotcha Gun" and the and the lack of knowledge that the operators had about CM. The tranquilizers available today are also a lot more effective than 30 - 40 years ago.

[sharkey]

Thanks, Capchaman.If you use "LANs" & don't exert the deer this method is possible. Without "LANs", it is an act of cruelty. Sharkey.

[WindyRidgeWhitetails]

I must admit that the videos of capturing wild animals are quite impressive but on the same hand I have to admit that I do not think it's cost-effective in what research the DNR are claiming to gather. For one, the does they capture will most likely abort and they'll wonder why there's so many late fawns born. And if they fly anywhere in the southern half of Wisconsin they have a lot of trees/cover to avoid let alone the bluffs in our area. Hope the helicopter pilots are as skilled as the video pilots are.

With the supplements the biologists give the animals upon capturing, I don't see how they can say they'll have a good research done on what the biggest cause of death when they may be preventing what they're "dying off from" by giving them things such as Vit E/selenium...just a thought. :confused:

I also cannot imagine those big wide collars being very comfortable when their coats change, hope they don't cut their feet and/or above their hooves trying to itch under them or get caught in branches by using the limbs to scratch. Worse yet, hope the other deer don't take too strange to the collars when they see them like when our deer have something hanging from their antlers. :eek:

[IndependenceRanch]

The whole idea is a crock. I am just throwing it out there and have no evidence or insight to any particular information. But could this maybe, just maybe, be a really sneaky idea of funneling money towards a company who either owns the helicopters, the pilots, or the service being used?
If I owned a company and wanted to get some over inflated contract to make some big dollars and I could convince some person in a position of power to use my service what could I make? Hmmm?

[G O Whitetails]

The contract was given to a Salt Lake City based company named Red Pine Helicopters. It was for $94,000. They plan to catch 60 - 90 adult deer. Its part of a greater plan called [Investing in Wisconsin Whitetails] a $2 million plan for researching deer mortality and size of the deer herd. Doing the math, its about 1,000 to $1600 per deer, not counting the DNR's other costs. If they needed deer would'nt it be better to buy deer? How many deer farmers would sell does for $1500 and be happy? Also they would be getting good genetics to improve the wild deer herd.

[crocket]

The contract was given to a Salt Lake City based company named Red Pine Helicopters. It was for $94,000. They plan to catch 60 - 90 adult deer. Its part of a greater plan called [Investing in Wisconsin Whitetails] a $2 million plan for researching deer mortality and size of the deer herd. Doing the math, its about 1,000 to $1600 per deer, not counting the DNR's other costs. If they needed deer would'nt it be better to buy deer? How many deer farmers would sell does for $1500 and be happy? Also they would be getting good genetics to improve the wild deer herd.

DNR buying deer? never work makes to much ( CENTS ) LOL

[WindyRidgeWhitetails]

They need to keep coming up with new projects to gather funds since their CWD scare is dwindling...and so are the funds. Really, they need to be able to pay for the additional land they just acquired.

Plus, the radio just said they purchased a deer farm in northern WI, any truth to that?

[Ross]

Catching deer with net guns out of helicopters is not new. Thousands of deer are caught each year out of helicopters with minimal death loss. The only real danger of netting deer is the weight that is attached to each corner of the net hitting the deer in the head. We catch 120 wild deer each year and put them in DMP pens. DMP pens are permitted by the state of Texas to allow ranchers to catch 20 does and a quality buck prior to the rut hold them in a pen (minimum 5 acres) and then release them by August 31.This allows a trophy buck to breed a quantity of doe instead of just 1-3. This is a great way to increase quality genetics on a piece of property. Some doe have been caught 3-4 times. We eartag every doe every time that we catch her so we know how many times she has been caught. Out of 500+ deer that have been caught we have only lost 3. We can catch over 100 head a day and there would be no way we could do that with darting.

[crocket]

Catching deer with net guns out of helicopters is not new. Thousands of deer are caught each year out of helicopters with minimal death loss. The only real danger of netting deer is the weight that is attached to each corner of the net hitting the deer in the head. We catch 120 wild deer each year and put them in DMP pens. DMP pens are permitted by the state of Texas to allow ranchers to catch 20 does and a quality buck prior to the rut hold them in a pen (minimum 5 acres) and then release them by August 31.This allows a trophy buck to breed a quantity of doe instead of just 1-3. This is a great way to increase quality genetics on a piece of property. Some doe have been caught 3-4 times. We eartag every doe every time that we catch her so we know how many times she has been caught. Out of 500+ deer that have been caught we have only lost 3. We can catch over 100 head a day and there would be no way we could do that with darting.

thanks ross/wi DNR hope i never meet you:(

[Whitepine Whitetails]

Forget the crazy capture senario, How is radio tagging deer going to help estimate the states deer population ?
All you will have is an estimation of how long deer live after being stressed to the max. with a helicopter and a radio necklace.
Using a plane and counting yarded up deer in late winter, and surveying hunters makes more sense to me. But of course that would be cheaper and less sensational.
Jamie

[Rustyblaster]

Let me get this straight...:rolleyes: So you capture wild does, pen them in, put a trophy wild buck in the mix, a little hanky panky later you release the deer. Does B&C recognize a trophy harvested in that region? It just seems as though it is the same smack talk that deer farmer nay sayers claim is unethical about fenced hunting. It is selective breeding without the fence.

[Wild Rivers Whitetails]

DNR has called this off. They claim they had problems with the helicopter.

[CurtisLloyd]

the recession must be really bad ..the country has only one working helicopter

[G O Whitetails]

http://www.wqow.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=5605742&at1=Promotion 12&h1=At Last Off the Ground - 2/25/11&flvUri=&partnerclipid= On "Northland Adventures" this morning, WQOW/18 News, they had a story about the capture. I hope I did the link right, or you can google Northland Adventures with Dave Carlson. Gary

[Whitepine Whitetails]

I watched the rodeo, and it seemed to go quite well.

It still doesn't make sense to me. The wildlife official said after tagging adult deer they will be able to tell how long they live. If they can't tell how old a dead deer is, how can they know how old the live deer is when they tag it?

[sharkey]

They can get a pretty good relative age from tooth eruption & an absolute from the cementium annuli meathod from dead deer,hope theres not too many.
It dosn't take much effort to throw a cover over a clover trap, before getting in with a deer.It dramatically reduces the stress on both parties.I can't believe they allowed a basic mistake like that on air.
Hopefully the reasearch is more robust.
Cheers Sharkey