New Red cap people! You must read!!!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

1 if you are feeding red cap you must feed all they want.Do Not feed like
replacer.You will starve your deer if you do not!
Call if you have questions Don't assume...

2 Do not do that with replacer! You will kill fawns

I have talked to Two people... and do not want a red cap fight... But need to make sure they know to feed ALL THEY WANT OF RED CAP.
If you want to cuss me out call me or email me personally so kids can read this and PETA doesn't see us tearing each other apart:D

[Aaron_CCDR]

I switched a fawn at 4 weeks old a few days ago due to poor body condition and over all look. I switched to red cap but I add one teaspoon of superior to it. The fawn has turned around very well and is looking great and has great pelleted poo again. This is my first time around with the red cap so I am experimenting with it. I studied long and hard over the past year to decide if I wanted the switch. I had to do something for this fawn so I figured I might as well try it now. The fawn was on goats milk and I believe it had something wrong with it that it might have passed down tothe fawns. Normally I woulnd never switch feed for fawns. But I felt I had no choice. Hope all goes well with him because he is a Martygraw son.....

[ddwhitetails]

I use the Red Ca as well as most everyone on here knows by now......the system for Red cap is that they must eat more.....yea we say all you can eat BUT use common sense as some fawns will over eat and not no when to stop....they can over eat and that can lead to milk spilling over into their rumin which is not a good thing.....most fawns when they start getting full will start mouthing the nipple and start spitting it in and out.....but like i said you always have those ones that will eat till their bellies explode........it's just common sense you know when they have had enough. Good luck with what ever system you use! Hope your fawning season is going well!!

[White Oak Whitetails]

when should the fawns start pelletizing their poo?

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

A week or Two ...If it isn't perfect pellets don't worry as long as it is like tooth paste...It is not to much to be concerned with as long as you are giving dirt and probiotics...If it stinks or gets watery or has blood is when you need to do something.

[White Oak Whitetails]

it"s kinda like toothpaste. what is probotics? and she's outside, so she should be getting dirt.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Dig the dirt up ...turn it upside down keep it changed daily...
Give me a call (724)735-9924

[Aaron_CCDR]

I have to tell you this is my first run with the red cap milk. I had a buck fawn that i HAD to get turned around in a bad way. We are going on 4 days now and he is 100% now. He only takes about 9 - 10 oz right now but we are also adding pumpkin (for anti parasitic properties and mass) 1 tbs to a bottle, 100% natural yogurt at 1 tsp per bottle, and for now Superior milk replacer at 1 tsp per bottle. This fawn stunk like death when he got here and could barely get up on his feet. Slime in the runny stool, and terrible odor. He had a terrible cough that would knock him off of his feet. The only thing other than the above bottle given was 3/8 cc draxxin. He is now pelleted and looks like he has gained some weight all in 4 days time. He has a very light cough that only happens once in a very great while. We have him in the house with an Ionic breeze cleaning the air going to him. The things we do right!! He is a Martygraw X Vortex / Redoy Roller son. I really hated to loose him.

Thanks all for posting all the information you have over the past few years on deerforums. The knowledge here has helped many. I would have never even thought about the red cap had it not been for the threads posted here. It is working great for me so far. I can get it fresh whenever I need it too!!

[T.R.O.]

We started red cap this year too. Great luck for the first 3 weeks. adding probiotics to every bottle and they would eat about 12-18 oz every 6 hours. Then this past week they have squirts every other time we feed. hard at one feeding and 6 hours later turns to screamin and smellin. We went to only giving them 8 oz. of milk and then how ever mch water they could drink. We are now giving them pumpkin and yogurt and probiotics. I think it is starting to harden up but does anyone know how fast they digest what they take in. The 6am feeding is the first of the day, so when will that be coming out the other end? Should we give them more milk and less water? Milk has the fat and protein and good stuff but water is just keeping them from getting dehydrated. They act like they are starving and they drink 8 oz milk and would drink 20+ more oz water if we would let them. been cutting it off round 12-15. What would you red cap guys do? Do you think that they acting like they are starving when we feed because we arent giving enough milk? Or they are just hyper and excited because its time to feed? They are 4 weeks, so how many oz do you expect them to eat at 4 times a day? We are plannig on switching to 3 times a week so should the amounts be any different for that?

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I only have 15 on the bottle now...My first one was born on March 13th

I let all of mine, except for one eat all they want...She is a comfort eater...She is a single doe fawn (Huge)AI baby...I stop her... I will let her eat her full 24 oz bottle ...feed the others...than see if she still wants more or if she plays with it.

[ddwhitetails]

TRO......your not feeding them enough milk......mine are eating at least 16 to 20 oz of milk per feeding unless they don't seem like they want that much....if they start messing with the nipple it is time to move on to the next fawn.....sometimes they just want to goof off.....well they sure are hungry for the next feeding....anyhow, feed them more if your using the red cap and not mixing with any replacers.........try putting in the pumkin for a few feedings and see if it helps with theie stool....I have had some loose stools too...but don't get to excited unless they are really squirting bad and if there was blood in it......or if they are not eating well.......otherwise I use the pumpkin and it seems to harden them back up.......but definetly get them eating more milk!! Good Luck..........a lot of people panic when they see a loose stool.......you are with these fawns daily and you should know as soon as they are not feeling well....my motto is if you think there is something wrong with the fawn act then....don't wait till you know there is something wrong because then it just may be to late. trust in your judgement!!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Greatly stated Dennis.

[T.R.O.]

Alright, Thanks alot Dennis. We will get back onto just redcap and probioitics. Then only use pumpkin and yogurt if the stools get loose?? Or do you add some of that to each feeding anyways to keep it solid. Do you always stay with 4 feedings or at what age do you start giving more milk and only 3 times a day? Thanks for the help guys. I Just fed and there were some nice looking turdlets on the ground so I think they are better. Hopefully not going to be constipated now.

[T.R.O.]

I forgot to add... How many time are you wiping there butts to make them go each day? If you dont see them go on there own or if you dont do it for them then how you know if they have the squirts. 3 and 4 week olds and we are just wiping once a day to keep an eye on what it looks like. Is that good or bad? The other thing is if they are wanting more than 20 ounces would you consider giving then a 3rd bottle of water instead of milk or only use water when something goes wrong.

We were told we were probably feeding to much milk and wiping them too often and thats why they were squirting. So , supposed to add water and only give 8 oz milk instead of 18. Thats why we were on that track but I think we should have it figured out after these questions are answered. Thanks again, its great hearing what other farmers are doing and how they solve problems.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

They should have a dish of water at all times...but personally, I wouldn't give a bottle of water this early on.

[ddwhitetails]

TRO.....you can go to three times a day right now especially if your going to let them eat more....but i stress they must eat more....around 16 to 20oz a feeding...thats what my are on now.......that is how I have started them off this year instead of doing the four feedings and it has worked fine...........you will get a feel once your fawns start eating browse and feed....try picking up some calf mana pellets at your local feed store it is one of the best solid feeds to start them on......the sooner you can get them eating that stuff the sooner you can wean them......you will notice when they are eating the feed that you can start cutting back on the bottle ...i don't do the pumpkin everyday......only when they are having loose stools and i give it to them for about three feedings and they usually get back to normal.........3 and four weeks olds do not need stimulated anymore......let them go they will go on their own usually when your giving them a bottle so you will still be able to see what their stool looks like......plus if they have the squirts real bad.....you will know just by looking at their dirty back side it will be all over the place you will know.......TRO relax and have fun with the little buggers.......don't stress yourself out to much enjoy! As long as your caring for them the best that you can you are doing great!! Good Luck and have fun!!!!

[florida boy]

I am feeding 8 fawns
mix is 1 gal red cap
1 cup sav-a kid replacer
3 tsp probiotics
1/2 can pure pumpkin
each eats 8-10 oz 4 x per day
1 is still hungry but when I give her more, she seems to run off the back door.
Think about how your belly and back door will react to overeating a rich food!
Moderation and slow increases of milk have been the key to our success
ALL ARE VERY HEALTHY! THANK YOU RED CAP PEOPLE AND ALLEN FOR THE RECIPE!

Robert

[T.R.O.]

Anyone else having difficulties with redcap? I got them having great stools after 3-4 feedings of pumpkin and yogurt and probiotics. As soon as it got better I slowly took them off of the pumpkin and mixtures, but as soon as I got back to strait Red Cap and 20 oz. per feeding they have decided to go back to the runs. Do I just need to continue giving them pumpkin and yogurt in possibly 1 bottle per day? Will that keep them solid? How important is the probiotics in each bottle to replace the bugs that pasturization removes? Is anyone feeding strait red cap without any other ingredients? Just strait from the jug to the bottle to the deer??

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I give straight red cap ...I add probiotics 1 time a day.
I personally have not added pumpkin....
Mine do not have the runs some are softer than I would like but nothing bad ...
Not sticking to them, runny or anything bad ...some just don't have pellets...It comes out in a line about 6 inches and drops on the ground almost like peanut butter...Nothing runny or sticks to them.
Hope that helps...
Just another thought ...
How long after taking pumpkin out do they still have the runs...
Could it be from the switch?
Do they seem OK other than the runs...What color?

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Just another thought ...
How long after taking pumpkin out do they still have the runs...
Could it be from the switch?
Do they seem OK other than the runs...What color?

[Aaron_CCDR]

Painted,

What kind of probiotics are using and how much daily? I give target when real bad and Jump Start daily. I had great pellets then one buck got sick. He is scouring from what I believe to be Draxxin working through his system. I hope he gets back to the hard pellets again.

[Aaron_CCDR]

My mix is:

8 oz red cap
1 tsp plain 100% natural yogurt
1 tsp pumpkin
1 tsp superior milk replacer.
5 ML jump start probiotics ( once daily )

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I use Two kinds I have lamb and kid paste and Goats Prefer (brand name) Probiotic Prower.

[T.R.O.]

It has pretty well been soft and or runny the past two weeks and we keep adjusting how much of each ingredient we add.

[T.R.O.]

The runs are green and they seem great except there stools make me wonder!! I would not be walking right if I had the same stools they do and for the same period of time.

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

:eek:we use target -whitetail special blend 12 daily in all feedings. but have had to use on occasion liquid spectam scour halt and when that hasn't helped we fall back and use a all natural correction an all natural stopper-upper made by my amish friend joe schmucker but thats just us hope you get em cleared up it really is a bummer on the babies

[Robbie]

Unpasturized Nubian goat milk, 6-8 oz 5 times a day (6am, 10:30, 2:30, 6:30, 11:30pm), Target Special Blend 12 twice a day, nothing else. Most have pellets, a few have "toothpaste" and if any of them get softer than toothpase, I skip a milk feeding, replace it with however much water they should have had in milk, give 5 grams Target Electromax paste, let their digestive system catch up while maintaining hydration (we are seeing 100 degree days) and go back to milk next feeding. Stool tightens back up, and we roll on.

[Mitch P]

Robbie said a mouth full here. She nailed it. Let their systems settle down before making BIG changes. We want to intervene and make things right instantly but we need to think about how the body works. When we change their diet for whatever the reason we are going to see a change come from the back end. We aren`t with these little guys 24/4 so we aren`t quite sure what they have put in their mouths. Normally they eat something that just quite doesn`t agree with the little bellies. When that happens we remove food to help the system recover. Souring milk in an upset belly doesn`t speed up recovery. If the problem persists then we need to dig a little deeper. Fawns are tough little buggers and if there isn`t a serious problem they bounce back quickly. Just my two cents.

[allenb]

Very Very well said Robbie and Mitch.

[ddwhitetails]

Yes I agree.....I used to panic as soon as the fawns had a little loose stool or they did not eat a full bottle.....I then realized just what Mitch said they could eat something that doesn't agree with their bellies (which is usually the case) and if you just give them time to settle their bellies they usually bounce back fine.

[T.R.O.]

I was just wondering when everyone else deworms there fawns?? I thought that I was going to go 8 weeks before any vaccinations but I noticed 2 fawns that we left on the mother has some bad stools and we tested them and vet said worms. We now have ivomectin. Is that what you guys would do? I am kind of wondering if that may have a little to do with the ones Im bottle feeding. If all the fawns need to be wormed at 3 weeks old how are you supposed to catch them if there on the mothers. Especially at 8 weeks old??? The bottle feds will be easy by using ivomectin like the vet suggested or possibly using a paste in there bottles when feeding. Just wondering when everyone else worms there fawns that stay on the mothers and HOW. thanks

[virgil]

Looks like your going to have to catch them unless you shoot them with a dart full of ivomectin. If you decide to catch them be sure you have someone taping the chase so we could all watch.

[Barr'sWCT]

This may sound like dump questions but this is my first time using red cap also. All I am feeding is the red cap all they can eat. I have noticed that alot of you guys use differant stuff mixed in it. I can understand the yogurt because of the batria for digestion. But why use yogurt and probiotics? Wouldn't they both be for the same thing? Would you mix the yogurt every bottle? Someone mentioned so much yogurt in 8 ozs. What if the fawn is drinking 16 ozs would it be that much yogurt per 8 ozs? I have a friend that used it a couple times and she would just feed until the fawn was full but didn't give it anything else in it. I was thinking about putting yogurt in the bottles but not sure how much to put in. Fawns eating any were between 8 to 22 ozs at a feeding. But I do have dirt in with the fawns so would I just be doubling what they need? I am so confused------

[ddwhitetails]

Barr's you sound like I was my first year raising fawns....I was a nervous wreck.....I still get anxious at times but have learned that the fawns are pretty tough little buggers and can handle a lot........If they are eating well and pooing good....this does not mean they are going to have perfect looking stoll everytime.....they can get into things and upset their little bellies easily and usually they work themselves through it fine......now if you notice their apetite change (and that would be for a couple feedings not just one) and if there scours continue to get worse and watery then you need to be concerned and get them treated right away..........but don't if everything is going good and you sound like your doing a great job....don't let your stress ruin the fun of raising a fawn.....try to relax.......and I say TRY to relax and enjoy!!

[Barr'sWCT]

Dennis,
This is my 3rd year and it hasn't been a good start for me. My fawning season started with one of my doe giving birth to her 1st fawn and watched her walk and walk -not take care of the fawn that was born (which was really small lucky if it was 2 lbs) After watching her for about 7 hrs and a few phone calls to other deer farmers I decide to dart her and help her. Had to go in an pull the fawn out. This was my first time. Had no idea what to do. I had a friend on speaker phone and talking me though it. Well after getting the fawn out and of course it died in my arms. I took the 1st one she had and took care of that one for 3 days around the clock and it died too. And then to find the buck fawn half dead I thought here I go again. But he is doing great. It is the doe fawn I purchased that is the one with the scours. So you can see why I am nervous---- I don't like when they die---but that is part to of the business but I don't care who you are it still bothers you. I am going to try to relax and do what I can --hopefully everything will work out. Dennis thank you for all your help and advise---i am really greatful for this websit--it is the best to learn from other farmers.

[CameronCrow]

Barr'sWCT,

Hang in there. In the last three days I have lost one fawn to capture myopathy, 3 (1 bred & two post pregnancy) to Clostridium perfingens Type A (blackleg), and another fawn in a fence (it had no known reason to be startled). All this in three days. It's the business. I treated with Vision 7 for the Black leg and a new strand got me. Hang in there.

P.S. I will vaccinate ASAP for this Type A.

[ddwhitetails]

Cameron that really stinks...it just goes to show you can be as careful as can be and still things can happen......you are right...i was told before I got into the business that if you can't handle loss of life especially in fawns not to do it......it stinks but it is a part of the business....you have to know in your heart you are doing your best for these guys and girls and still things are bound to happen.....sorry to hear about your losses.

[virgil]

I have 11 fawns on the bottle all are doing well on straight all they can eat red cap and fresh dirt. If one starts to get a little loose i put 2 heaping spoon fulls of pumpkin in milk every feeding until stiffens up.Usually takes 2-3 feedings if it persists i add 3 cc of albon for 3 feedings and follow that up with some probiotics this is what seems to work well for me.

[dcwhitetails]

Rosanne i to Am confused, i think they the red cap people need to get together,agrre on the perfect mix, cause i lost. i like using simple products add water.Bam it over. no head scratching. and dont have to buy all the extras,only my thinking.DC,Ps im sure i could figure out a good mix, but mine easier and cheaper DC

[virgil]

DC, don't get any easier than straight red cap from the jug and alittle dirt. So far 11 fawns only cost me 50 dollars in milk thanks to the dairy giving me their older milk that is to close to experation date to sell. Must have been typing at same time.

[dcwhitetails]

We was virg your right, keep it simple usually works best,DC

[Barr'sWCT]

I am going to keep it simple--red cap and dirt only feeding 2 fawns. Not sure what my cost is up to date. I try to keep the milk seprate from my house hold milk. But my kids and husband are big milk drinkers. I got to come up with some kind of system for next year. I plan on feeding all my doe fawn next year and keeping them.

What are anyone thoughts about unpasturized cows milk? I know a dairy farmer and was thinking about useing that next year.

Dennis went and got some pumkin for the does scours--well they stopped it seems one day she has the runs then the next she is fine. She is 2 wks old today and is eating more she drank 16 ozs this morning. --thanks for all your help.