Fawns Licking

[Ferguson288]

I am currently bottle feeding a twin buck and doe fawns. The doe fawn is constantly licking/sucking/biting the ears, nose, and manhood of the buck fawn. I have heard that this could cause him to be hurt in the long run or even kill him if she sucks it too much. If anyone has a good remedy for this, please let me know. I have separated them when I have them inside and outside, but now all they do is cry until they see each other. Let me know, Thanks.

[gcw matt]

Let them cry for a week then they will be over the butt sucking.( maybe?) If not leave them apart longer. Sorry, some try vinegar and other things but separation is the only for sure remedy.

[Ferguson288]

That is what I thought.....Thanks

[Midwest Deer Sales]

If you continue to let the doe fawn suck on the buck fawn he will get infected and it will not be good. Harry Strawser uses a good spray mixture of vinager and tabassco sauce. His number is 717.645.4555. Call him and I am sure he would give you he mixture. He says it tastes bad and they will quit, it will not hurt them. Also helps with butt lickers.

[Wooden acres]

I'd seperate them too . It's just good to keep them apart for many reasons . They bond to you better and they don't spread anything from one to the other. I never liked keeping two fawns together but thats just my opinion ..Good luck with them ..

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I am sorry but I must say...Don't put Hot sauce on a butt or anything else...it is also not good for noses and eyes and other buck parts you want to protect...
Any form of pepper burns...being on a Narcotic force I can speak from experience!

[Midwest Deer Sales]

Let me restate my response I think you would use very little tabascco and not coat an area with it. Mix the Vinager/Tabascco/and water in a spray bottle and it will be diluted. Just use it for a few days and they will quit licking. We are not talking about coating the area. I think Harry Strawser is a very repatable deer farmer and he would never in any way harm his deer. If you think it may harm you deer, please don't do this. I just know from experience, I have seen it work.

[Aaron_CCDR]

Agreed Painted, I know a farm that put some around the anal area to keep from sucking and the bucks eyes got it in them. How? Who knows. It could have been a foot or leg or something that got back there. He might have licked near or around the hot area but got his eye in the bad area. I know people have done it and not really had any problems but it is not worth it to me. We seperate all fawns. By seperating them you also keep the poo and everything else isolated to each fawn itself. a simple 4 sided wooden box works great. Alot of amish even leash their fawns up on a short leash and that, from what i have seen over the last 5-6 years, really works well. I have just seen to many chewed ears, tags, ect to keep my fawns together for the first 2 months. Just my .02 cents.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Let me state I understand ...You both are respectable...I have seen this done by a respectable vet...With vicks...But am stating from bin-there-done-that...
I am just stating would you water down Tabasco and stick it in you or your kids eye ???
John...No I wouldn't put my kid in the barn and shoot him in the...Butt with wormer either ,but ya get what I'm saying;)

Harry knows deer but I know pepper and pepper spray...On a personal level.
You can't breathe and many many other things that a young fawn should not have happen to it.
Just my thoughts

[Midwest Deer Sales]

First let me state that if this gentleman that made this post had the time to be there for his deer 24/7 he probably would not be in this situation anyway. You give your kids care 24/7 and they are with an adault at all times until they now what is acceptable. We pull these fawns at 1 or 2 days old and they do not know what is wrong or right. Lets make a comparision that is on track with what we are talking about. The gentleman asked for a remedy. I was just giving him one. As far as would I stick tabassco in my kids eyes, heck no.! Nor am I sticking TABASSCO in my deers eyes! First lets say you don't use this method, fine. Then try something you feel comfortable with. This industry is an expensive thing to enter. Maybe this guy doesn't have the capabilities to seperate his deer.
I guess you don't ear tag your deer either? If you do, do you ear tag you kids? Those big holes those ear tags put in there must hurt a little when you do that? That's what I thought! Make better analogy's when you post on here. This guy is just looking for some help. We give sound advice that is a known remedy to help. I would in no way tell this gentleman to hurt or do something I thought would jeopradize his fawn. I have noticed in a couple of other posts where you have jumped on someone for their posts. It may not be the way you would do it, but your not always right either Painted. Take it from someone that has visited more farms than you will probably ever see. This works and I have never seen a fawn hurt from it. The only thing I have ever seen is that it keeps them from doing something they shouldn't. Thats being a parent, and a good stewert of this industry. Helping people not bashing ones intelect. If it were not for this site you could just figure everything out on your own. How would that be!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Actually my kids ear is gauged and I have a pierced tongue bring on the tag...
Pepper spray in a mouth and nose and eyes keeps hurting everytime the relick their lips ect.
and can transfer it to the water every fawn will drink out of...
I don't think I bashed anybody just getting people to look into something before they try something!

I was editing before you even posted because I knew someone would go there!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Please list where I have Jumped on anyone???

[Midwest Deer Sales]

Another thing I would like every one to know. Police use pepper spray that is 15% Capsaicin* as the active ingredient. This is a chemical boding element that make the pepper 200x's hotter than real peppers. This pepper Painted refers to is not natural, it is man made though chemicals. We are not even talking the same language here. This has nothing to do with the police or pepper spray!
Just for the record here is the chemical compound of pepper spray:
(E)-N-(4-Hydroxy-3-methoxybenzyl)
-8-methylnon-6-enamide,
trans-8-Methyl-N-vanillylnon
-6-enamide, (E)-Capsaicin,
CPS, C
Here is the ingrediants in tabassco:
Chillie Peppers
Garlic
Vinigar
Salt
Sugar.

You wrote this on one of your posts a few days a go:
"If I am not wrong (WHICH I AM SURE I AM) forums are for everybody (new and old) to share if everyone on there already Knows it all...They wouldn't work well...The same if everybody is attacked no one will post things...That would be bad.
I have talked to many new people who are afraid to post...Wonder why ."

Maybe this is exactly why people don't post. Because someone gives advice and you squash it with uneducated and no real experience with the procedure. Have you tried it? Then don't knock it. 5 drops tabasco in a vinigar/water solution of 2 quarts is minimal, and a very inexpensive way to help keep fawns from sucking on each other. And yes it could be a little uncomfoatable for a day or so, but it is like sticking your finger in a light socket. I'll be you don't do that again either! Or??????

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Yes!
Thank-you, but I learned that in the academy and then in life... but I also cook with Tabasco and am familiar with that product and a drop even mixed with water on a fawns sensitive nose can make them crash into a fence repeatedly not knowing why its face nose and eyes hurt...They are not dogs who can be trained for the most part and instinct rules them to search for a nipple...You can't beat instinct.
And you are a great example of attacking.
I just didn't agree and I think I did so tactfully.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

And yes it could be a little uncomfoatable for a day or so, but it is like sticking your finger in a light socket. I'll be you don't do that again either! Or??????

So your saying you can train deer...
If a deer hits a fence because it is scared you are telling me it won't hit the fence again...Wow you do know a trick I don't
PS I wrote any form of pepper burns ...Not saying it was law enforcement strength since it illegal for most to own!

[Liveoak]

Deja Vu...... Now this is why the site has 340 members and only about 40-50 that actually post regularly.....

All of the answers can work but wont work all the time and each has its own time and place for use. Maybe we need to take up a collection and hire an arbitrator to monitor the site. I personally dont see much difference in putting the mixture on a deers rump or sticking an electric prod up his butt at 17 months old in order to make some money. BTW 25 years ago my parents used hot sauce to stop my sister from sucking her thumb, worked in less than two days but I seriously doubt you would see that trick posted anywhere today.... Probly the same for some off Harry's other remedies.....

As for the original post, you might try a soft dog toy with short threads and no squeaker in her pen to give her something to show affection to or chew on..... Ive seen that work too as well as everything else mentioned.....

[virgil]

My teacher at school used pepper spray to keep kids from chewing on finger nails every time she saw someone chewing on nails she would grab hand and put it on nails. Once in a while might get a little in your eyes but it did help a lot of kids kick the habit. Seems to me this tobasco vineger remedy might be a good one think i will give a try my self i have a few butt lickers that just won't quit. A little pain is better than a sick deer in my opinion.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

They are babies their instinct is to suck...They don't get the connection to the pain.
If you separate them just a little while they get over it...And you can put them together again...
Which ever method best of luck

[Midwest Deer Sales]

The pain is not the issue here. It wont conflict pain. It is the taste that they don't like. If I were trying to conflict pain I would just slap their tongue with a ruler! Get real here. This is not about pain, it's about getting a fawn to stop sucking on another fawn. Also my deer do not hit the fence! I have not had one deer hit the fence that I know of. I can even take my Jack Russel to the pens with me and be mowing grass in there and they just watch me! TAME DEER! I guess I am a deer trainer! I have trained them to be around dogs, and mowers, as well as not be butt lickers!

[ddwhitetails]

Here we go again.......I have learned from my mistakes! PaintedMeadows without taking anyones side here but simply reading the posts I must agree with Midwest......he was simply giving an opinion which is what we want everyone to do on here and you came and not so tactfully disagreed with his opinion..........now of course he is going to defend himself especially when he has a system that he has seen work.......now you both bring up some excellent pionts......but I believe it when he says he knows it works......do you think he wants to give advice to everyone on here and have their fawns crashing fences.....I really don't think so.......I'm sorry but PaintedMeadows you came across to me as the attacker on this one......it is easy to defend ones thoughts when we feel we are right but there are better ways of doing it.......I want to here everyones opinion but I would like it to where we can each give our thoughts and what works for us without bashing someone elses ideas. Let's really try hard......I had my moment with John Swank when talking about Red Cap milk....we since have mended our friendship as he was respectful enough to call and we talked and hashed out our differences.....he is a great guy and respect him for what he did.....I know he also called you to Painted and i thought this would help not having these heated debate issues going forward.........I really feel Midwest is giving some good sound advice that obviously he has seen work...we need to really be more thoughtful of others when posting on here....i know I sure am going to try! i actually am going to try this idea of midwest as i have a bunch of but lickers and rope pullers that are on my last nerve!!:eek:

[Gaylen C]

Well said, Dennis.

[Gaylen C]

Too many times someone will post on experiences, remedies, will give their opinions based on what they had been hearing from others, just to have someone read the post and assume that they are being personally attacked. Then the bickering starts. As deer farmers we should be able to come on here tell others of our experiences, and remedies without a all out fight. Some people need to lighten up and quit taking a general post as an all out attack on them.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I am sorry but I must say...Don't put Hot sauce on a butt or anything else...it is also not good for noses and eyes and other buck parts you want to protect...
Any form of pepper burns...being on a Narcotic force I can speak from experience!Sorry I should have put "I would not"...instead ...of don't
As stated before I feel you are both respectful and value your opinion but feel that a board in between fawns for a short time is a safer fix than any amount of pepper...
I used bitter yuck for dogs a few years ago...They hated the taste and smell but didn't associate it with licking and sucking...
They kept going back for more hated it and went back...

I do apologize if I was out of line...
I would just hate for someone to read that and add more, because if a little works... more is better and that happens a lot on here.

[Aaron_CCDR]

Alot of people have opinions on many things here on deerforums. That is what makes it great. Visit past threads on bottle feeding buck fawns, milk replacers, ect. All have great opinions on what they have done and what has worked. I wouldn't pierce my tongue but I won't tell others don't. Use both sides to decide what YOU feel is correct for your situation. So Painted doesn't use pepper he would rather use a board. Great!! I do the same but I will never tell you my way is right. But others probably prefer the other methods for their deer. I know Midwest has been around the block for sometime so he HAS seen just about anything and everything that has been done. I have alot of respect for him but that doesn't mean I will follow as gospel though. I would definately take a great deal of consideration to what he says and way that into the decision I would make.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Don't mean to correct you but I am a her;)

[Ferguson288]

Wow, I really didn't mean to start a huge argument over this. I just decided to separate the little buggers and they have taken it very well. Even though I talked to a few other deer farmers that says the tabasco spray does work, I'm just gonna stick to keepin them separated. I have the capability to do so and will just stick to that. This is my first time doin the bottle feeding, but I have gone through scours and lack of willingness to eat in the buck fawn, but he is up and running like crazy all over the house, and they are only nine days old. The buck fawn just started out real bad because he was the second baby out and his sister seemed to get all the nutrients and that in the womb (she is double the weight and size of him as we speak). But, he is getting stronger and is very alert and jumpy. Thanks again

[Aaron_CCDR]

Soo sorry for that!!! Please except....

[Aaron_CCDR]

Fergusson,

Glad to hear he is doing well for you now.

[John Swank]

We have started a new group here on the Deer Farmer Forums.....

It's called the Deer-o-holic's Anger Management Group...

We are excepting participants for our 16 week "bear with a sore rear" course.

Not only am the hair club president, ohh wait.... wrong commercial....

Here we go, For more detailed information, please see this link (http://www.deerforums.com/vbforums/group.php?groupid=7)...


Indemnity Clause - this is just a humorous attempt at asking everyone to just have fun learning from one another...

:D:D:D

[virgil]

Dennis what is a rope puller. Please explain for me.

[John Swank]

Dennis what is a rope puller. Please explain for me.

I was thinking the same thing Virgil.... ;)

[ddwhitetails]

Ha, Ha....nice way of saying "Penis Sucker":D