Your opinion on demand for shooter bucks?

[Whitetails]

I was thinking about the business and the natural flow of the business and wondered, is the supply of shooter bucks enough every year at this point to fill all of the preserves hunts at this point? Is there a surplus of shooter bucks, or is it nearly impossible to find shooters come fall if you call around. Vague questions but I think you all get the general picture. Clearly this where the price of shooters and everything within this industry is affected most. Thanks for the replies in advance!

[virgil]

There is way more shooters than there needs to be. This is the reason for the low prices. It cost more to feed them than most reserves want to pay. Just raising shooters is not the way to go. If you are going to do it you need to get into the breading end and buy top genetics to get started.

[Whitetails]

Good info guys! Keep em coming! I wonder if there will come a day soon that we can't book the hunts for the shooter bucks we have available? Only thing that makes me not think that will happen is that there is less and less 'huntable' land with each day as our towns and cities grow bigger and develop on what was once 'huntable' land.

Anyone else have a take on the demand/supply of shooter bucks? What were your all's average prices this year anyways? I clearly have seen a steady drop in shooter prices from 6 years ago.

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

In my opion thier will ALWAYS be a demand for QAULITY bucks! I think if you do your homework and talk to preserve owners I think they would agree!

[buckeyewta]

I think the shooter buck market will be good this fall. We may not get the prices we did 5 years ago but I think there will be demand for quality bucks. Most of the farmers I know of got their bucks sold last year. I know of one preserve here in Ohio that already has over 100 hunts booked for this fall.

[Wild Rivers Whitetails]

Supply and demand - if the economy is picking up more people will be booking hunts and more deer will be needed. The closed border states just create an artificial market - the best is a true, honest open market which will reflect true pricing. Those preserve owners in closed border states have to pay a premium for their shooters causing them to have to charge more for their hunts - which means they can't compete.

We feel things are picking up on the hunt side of things as well.

[foodplot]

I think the shooter prices will be about like last year.There still was alot of shooters left over from last year.

[fars]

The private sales I have seen this last year coupled with the increasing overhead prices will drive more deer farmers out of the business this coming year. This will produce whole herd liquidations that will drop the price of shooters to new lows as people are forced to sell. Good luck to us all!

[buckeyewta]

I feel we might be in for a pleasent surprise this fall. I have seen more bucks sold this spring for the upcoming season than I ever remember before. To me that only means the preserves look for a great year. Why would a preserve be buying bucks in February if they expected to be able to buy them for the same price in October? They know there will be a demand for bucks in the fall and want to buy them a last year's price. I personally talked to a preserve owner last week that told me they have more hunts sold than normal for this time of year and will be buying all the deer they can find next fall. I know they were still looking for bucks in January and could hardly find any. Also at the start of our January sale we announced that we know of preserves still looking for bucks abd to let us know if anyone still had bucks for sale. Not one person came up to us with bucks still for sale.

[virgil]

Getting in to the deer business to raise shooters and make a profit is just plain crazy. You will loose money!!! It is just plain impossible with the high cost of feed. This industry is flooded with shooters and you practicly have to give them away. This is why preserves are buying now cause many are getting out or can not afford to pay their feed bill. The reason preserves are selling more hunts is cause their prices are lower now than in the past cause they are buying deer cheaper. Every preserve that was still looking for deer did not want to pay jack crap for their shooters hardly enough to pay for that deers feed. Their prices on internet say one thing but when you call in person they are willing to come way down on their prices for a hunt .

If you want to do it for a hobby and raise a few deer that is great. It is a good time and very enjoyable. On the other hand if you want to make money you will need your own preserve and you should buy the best breeding stock you can find. This way you can sell your good stuff at auction and shoot the rest at your preserve.

[ThunderRidge]

Getting in to the deer business to raise shooters and make a profit is just plain crazy. You will loose money!!! It is just plain impossible with the high cost of feed. This industry is flooded with shooters and you practicly have to give them away. This is why preserves are buying now cause many are getting out or can not afford to pay their feed bill. The reason preserves are selling more hunts is cause their prices are lower now than in the past cause they are buying deer cheaper. Every preserve that was still looking for deer did not want to pay jack crap for their shooters hardly enough to pay for that deers feed. Their prices on internet say one thing but when you call in person they are willing to come way down on their prices for a hunt .

If you want to do it for a hobby and raise a few deer that is great. It is a good time and very enjoyable.

I agree, right on the money!;)
Couldn't have said it better myself..

[foodplot]

Mark,do you own a preserve?

[Hardpan]

Hi There,
Not sure about the shooter buck market. Seems like the actual hunting population is shrinking and lots of hunters are against high fences. Having said that, I may buy 40 shooters this year, looking for deals now.
Hardpan

[buckeyewta]

@foodplot. I don't own a preserve myself. I run Buckeye Whitetail Auctions. I do however talk to a lot of preserve owners as we do a shooter buck auction in the fall. Most of the preserves I have talked to have already sold a good number of hunts. I should have kept quiet here. I just wanted to let people know that the industry actually looks pretty good for the upcoing year. I for one have had more luck selling bred does etc off my own farm this spring than ever before.

[Uncle Harley]

let me ask you guys a question, I first off I am not in the market to make money on deer I have one pet deer because they facinate me. I do however have a few goats I make money off of. If I had to feed them commercial feed yr around I would not make money off of them either. So my question, for the market of "avg shooters" why couldn't you just put them to pasture with supplemental feed and mineral as needed and give them a little more time as in shooter at 3 instead of at 2 ? what is time to a deer? With my goats ( and they eat a hell of alot more than my deer does ) I spend about $60 per yr per goat on feed. The only time they get it, is when lactating and the babies get it when I wean them. The rest of the yr they are on rotation with free choice minerals.

[foodplot]

Mark,I have bought shooters from your sale a few years ago.For some reason I thought you had a preserve.

[Headley]

Your opinion on demand for shooter bucks?

Not good at all...

Joe Headley
www.AlabamasFinest.com (http://www.AlabamasFinest.com)

[Rick]

I for one believe the shooter market is stronger right now than in the last 2 years. That being said I believe I can move any shooter bucks that I might have but they will not bring the same price that they may have brought 3 or 4 years ago, this to me is a no brainer to some extent, economy, more 200" plus deer, more breeders, competition, etc......

On the flip side you can buy breeding does to produce shooter stock much cheaper than 3,4 or 5 years ago so your investment is not near as high. Obviously you are not going to spend 5,000.00 plus for semen in hopes of producing only shooter stock, but you can produce your own breeder buck and have him breed your does at no expense other than food, up keep, etc.
( A Hunter Does Not Care About An Animals Pedigree )

I for one do believe you can produce profit only selling shooter stock if that is the market you desire to be in, you just have to spend according to your desired end market. I do not believe you will become wealthy but you can suplement your income by producing desireable animals for the shooting industry.

As more and more preserves are being built and clients are being established the shooter market should remain strong as long as we do not have a collapse of the US economy. If that happens it doesnt matter what industry you are in...

[WICKED WHITETAILS]

I am with rick on this one. You are never going to make money on shooters if you are AIing or buying deer. You need a solid breeder buck and just breed your own doe. This just like buying show cows to be put into a milking operation. It dont matter what the cow looks like only how much milk she gives. The same goes for deer pedigrees it dont matter what they look like its what they put on their head when it comes to shooters. If you are a budget minded individual and set goals and limits you can and will make money on your shooter bucks.

[buckeyewta]

I for one believe the shooter market is stronger right now than in the last 2 years. That being said I believe I can move any shooter bucks that I might have but they will not bring the same price that they may have brought 3 or 4 years ago, this to me is a no brainer to some extent, economy, more 200" plus deer, more breeders, competition, etc......

On the flip side you can buy breeding does to produce shooter stock much cheaper than 3,4 or 5 years ago so your investment is not near as high. Obviously you are not going to spend 5,000.00 plus for semen in hopes of producing only shooter stock, but you can produce your own breeder buck and have him breed your does at no expense other than food, up keep, etc.
( A Hunter Does Not Care About An Animals Pedigree )

I for one do believe you can produce profit only selling shooter stock if that is the market you desire to be in, you just have to spend according to your desired end market. I do not believe you will become wealthy but you can suplement your income by producing desireable animals for the shooting industry.

As more and more preserves are being built and clients are being established the shooter market should remain strong as long as we do not have a collapse of the US economy. If that happens it doesnt matter what industry you are in...

I am with you 100% Rick. What I was trying to point out earlier is that we still have a very strong hunting market. It may not be like it was 5 years ago but there is still money to be made raising shooter bucks if a person operates his farm the right way.

[Headley]

I will say if you are wanting to get in to raising deer now is the time to get in. I don't think that prices will stay down long.

Joe Headley
www.AlabamasFinest.com (http://www.AlabamasFinest.com)

[Hardpan]

Guys,
i don't mean to sound like a devil's advocate, but what are you basing your opinions on for an improving shooter market? We have HUGE financial problems in the entire nation... and we have fewer hunters than in the past. The latest numbers that I saw were in the USA today, 2007, placed at 14M hunters. That is down from 23-43M in 2001 based on a survey from the various fish and game. I know that is comparing numbers from different sources, but still that is a very large decline.

I think that hunters willing to spend more for a private hunt may be flat to up based on the aging of the hunting population, and in general, the older hunters are better off financially. But, I remain concerned about the shooter market.

My other observation is that the shooter market is pretty much a buyers market in Texas right now. I am paying less for shooters that 5 years ago in spite of every single cost for the deer farmer being higher. We are close to being able to support a put and take market, and that would be a first for us.

From a macro perspective, the market is not very healthy. But, most of us are in it because we want to be... Love of the animals, outdoors, hunting etc.... I doubt that will change much. the next 5 years will be very very interesting.
Hardpan

[fars]

While the number of hunters will be extremely important in the long term market. The short term is still going to be about cash flow. As every single cost associated with raising deer goes up higher and higher (especially feed) the price of shooter bucks goes lower and lower. These are all related directly to the economy and the health of the US dollar. If the dollar continues to fall in value, commodities prices will continue to surge. As commodities increase in price people have less money to spend on entertainment (hunting). Thus a decrease in demand and an increase in overhead costs.

Good luck to us all!

[Rick]

I will stand by my previous comments, I still believe you can make a profit on preserve bucks, however that profit is not nearly as high as in years past, I believe we need to promote this industry and not make it appear like it is a loosing proposition, Browning Whitetails had their best year in 2010 and we are looking at 2011 being even better. I believe there are more hunting preserves than in the past, I believe that most are increasing their number of bookings every year, and their are new preserves being built as some see this as their best return on their investment, most of these preserves will need animals.

Also there are several different ways to market your animals, some of these bring more $ for each animal than others, it is up to us to purchase wisely, raise animals humanely, and market our animals for the best price that we can fairly get.

Now as for the US dollar and our economy, who knows, but in my opinion if it all falters it will not matter where you have invested, everyone will be dealing with the same issues.

I can tell you this with out any reservation or doubt, God Is Coming Again Soon.....

[TRIGGER]

Amen to that Rick!

[buckeyewta]

I am not sure what anyone is talking about when they say there is no demand for shooter bucks. Last fall I made quite a few phone calls before I found the number of bucks I wanted for our shooter auction. After the auction my #1 buyer came up to me and said

"Mark, I paid more for bucks at your sale than anywhere else this year. I bought them because I desparately needed bucks and they were here today. I would buy 40 more right now if you had them for me."

My question to anyone that thinks there is no demand for quality bucks is are you taking the first step by letting preserve owners know what you have for sale or consigning your bucks in a trophy auction?

To me sitting at home waiting for preserves to call you and then complaining that the industry is no good is just like builing a grocery store in the middle of a desert, doing absolutely no advertising or markrting of any kind and then blaming the food industry when the store goes broke.

I think if a person manages a farm correctly and markets his bucks aggressively that there is still money to be made raising shooter bucks

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

My main concern with this topic is simple................IF those of you who have said that the market is BAD...........WHY are you raising deer ? If NOT with the main focus of your operation on producing QAULITY stock for preserve owners ? This "INDUSTRY" is the only one of it's type that...........Truely has an end market! and that's the bottom line. I fully understand "the cost of producing" a product and that is something we ALL have to accept and learn to (as i have said many times) keep our pencils sharp and cut cost of production to keep your farm in the black for as long as possible. That usally means scaleing back on the number of animals most of us can handle. That in turn brings us back to our Q's..............QAULITY over Qaunity. Keep only animals bred to produce early matureing genetics that will score more at an earlier age yet maintaining a "LOOK" the hunter is after.So you can turn them at 2 years of age and not having to keep them the extra year. It will be a lot like how a feed lot does thier cattle operation. It will take a combination of all the small things that will in turn help your farms bottom line. The thing many forget is if you have a "QAULITY" product there will.................ALWAYS be a demand for it by those WHO are not affected by the economic down turn and who "ALWAYS" have some sort of expendable income! And for "RAISING DEER only for the LOVE" of it! I will always have deer... money maker or not! But not at such a large number that they eat better than my family. I look at this Industry a little different than most being self employed for the last 20+ years. so take no offense from this statement unless you feel it's not the truth! You have to be a Deerfarmer or a farmer or a carpenter or in any business or for sure in your marriage for the long haul,good times & bad times! You know like the old saying "When the going gets tuff " The DEERFARMER will be here for the long haul and those in it only for the quick money will be gone and so will those who don't understand what decisions have to be made and when to make them to keep your doors open. At least here in Missouri selling shooter has never been a problem and I hope it's the same for everyone out there and that the market is STRONG and it's more a matter of your VOICE being WEAK!


Best of luck!