Sores on fawns mouths!!!!

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

We have discovered several bottle fed fawns with deep lesions on their mouths. These lesions have invaded the surrounding soft tissue. They start with pen sores on the outside of the mouth causing swelling and often lesions on the inside of the lips. (see pics). The scabs from these lesions seem to be convex. Our worst case as seen in an attached pic has an isolated swelling that runs from the front of the top lip back along the top jaw to just in front and below the ear where a soft marble sized pocket has formed.

These fawns were pulled after approximately 24 hrs after birth, put in individual crates with no contact to other fawns, under extremely clean conditions. Bottles and nipples are very clean with no cross contamination. All fawns are weeks apart in age.-Randy Gottfredson Director of Animal Health

Anyone had this experience? If so what did you do and what happened?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3308/3630510786_3064c500ea_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3629693887_917c9149a1_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3629695451_be590a4563_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3323/3629697033_7305b12fc6_o.jpg

[Whitetail Sanctuary]

wow!!!!!!!!! hope you get some answers never saw that before good luck keep us posted!

[IndependenceRanch]

I know someone who had issues similar to this a couple of years ago.
Does is smell putrid? If so this could maybe be necrobaccillosis (sp).
If so it must be treated or they die very quickly. He used penicillin 1cc every other day.
It is like a flesh eating disease and will eat all the tissue away.

[Wooden acres]

Isaac, I just talked to your Dad and Randy and I'm thinking it's Fusobacterium necrophorum and I'd treat with Penicillin combined with Streptomycin and that should cover both gram negitive as well as gram positive organisms. Also vaccinate with Fusogard 2cc per fawn. Fusogard is a Fusobacterium Necrophorum bacterin meaning a vaccine made from bacteria. Get the newborns vaccinated ASAP with the 2cc of Fusogard. I wouldn't raise fawns without it !! You local vet should have some but if your Dad can't get any fast enough I have some here and I'm only 30-40 minutes from you ..Just my opinion .

[John Swank]

Has anybody considered "sore mouth"? On the first picture, without the swelling, it looks as though there is a yellowish tint to the nose, which resembles that of early stage sore mouth. I think sore mouth starts out with blisters and swelling of the lips and gums and then the blisters dried up and scabbed over.

I will do some goggle research and post back....


Edit Added -->
Not sure if this is it or not. The pictures Isaac took kind of remind me of the way our lambs would get when they had sore mouth. That was a long time ago and I was only about the age of Isaac at the time. I have retired a lot of brain cells since then, so I could be way off base.

Here is a brochure on sore mouth.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/orf_virus/pdf/06_106555_PGM_FAQ_final.pdf


Good luck,
John

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

Thank you for your quick response. Curtis your help and past year problem will save us fawn loss. Ross thank you for sharing fuso guard with us. Dawn is on her way to your ranch to pick up any extra. We are giving penicillin to all bottle fawns. Our vet did culture test and should have results Monday. Great to have such wonderful support. Thank you Isaac his Dad (Scott) and the Applecreek team!!!





Introduction

Necrobacillosis is also known as necrotic stomatitis, hepatic necrobacillosis, foot rot, calf diphtheria and lumpy jaw. It produces a variety of diseases, with abscessation occurring in almost any body organ or joint cavity. In white-tailed deer it is usually seen as individual cases of lumpy jaw or as a fatal infection of multiple fawns.


Cause

Necrobacillosis is caused by Fusobacterium necrophorum, an anaerobic, gram negative, often highly filamentous rod-like bacteria. Being "anaerobic" means that it likes to grow in places where there is very little air or oxygen. This organism is found in the intestines of many species as part of the normal flora. It survives well in wet soil that has a high manure content. Other bacteria are often associated with the disease, Arcanobacterium pyogenes being the most common.
Transmission

Animals develop necrobacillosis when a number of factors are present. Stress such as heat, cold, overcrowding or poor nutrition predispose to infection. Fusobacterium cannot penetrate intact skin. The organism gains entry into the body through cuts or abrasions to the skin or mucous membranes. In the mouth, grass awns, coarse feed, metal objects, and unevenly worn or newly erupting teeth can penetrate or damage the oral lining and create points of entry. Contamination of the abrasions with soil containing F. necrophorum results in an infection. Changes in the rumen environment such as grain overload or sudden changes in feed can damage the stomach lining. This provides a portal of entry for Fusobacterium, where they may then pass to the liver, causing hepatic necrobacillosis, or to other major organs.

In some situations the disease appears to be contagious and there is, no doubt, direct contamination of shared feed bunks and drinking water by infected animals with open lesions. The infectivity or invasiveness of F. necrophorum is enhanced by the presence of other bacteria such as E. coli and A. pyogenes and the presence of these bacteria permit infection by relatively few F. necrophorum organisms (9).


Other species affected

Cases of necrobacillosis have been reported in many species of wild and domestic hoofed animal. In farmed white-tailed and fallow deer, necrobacillosis is recognized as a serious problem of young or newly weaned fawns. There have been large die offs of wild mule deer and white-tailed deer, reindeer and elk (7). Heavy losses of kangaroos and wallabies have occurred in zoos and the wild (4). Foot rot can be a significant problem in cattle, sheep and bison and also wild hoofed stock (6).


Clinical signs

The location in the body of lesions determine what signs are seen. Affected animals are usually depressed and have a fever. Often the hair coat is rough and the animal is thin and doing poorly. Lesions involving the mouth are often deep, invading the surrounding soft tissue and bone creating the classic swollen jaw or face. Animals may go off feed and begin to lose condition as the problem develops. In fawns the lack of nutritional reserve and toxic by-products of the infection lead to a more rapid death.

Lameness is seen when the feet and associated joints are involved. Swelling between the toes is the first sign seen, followed by localized tissue death, spreading to the joints and bones in more advanced cases (5,7,10).

In the throat, necrotic laryngitis will show itself as loud wheezing. Some dead tissue and bacteria may be sucked into the lungs causing abscess formation and pneumonia.

Cases of necrotic rumenitis or stomach abscesses frequently have few signs except weight loss in chronic forms or apparent sudden death.


Post mortem findings

The most common lesions are necrotic ulcers or abscesses of varying depth on oral, pharyngeal (throat), or laryngeal mucous membranes. In severe cases, lesions extend into the nasal cavity, upper and lower jaw bones, larynx, trachea and lungs. Spread of F. necrophorum through the bloodstream may cause abscesses in internal organs. The abscesses contain foul smelling, thick purulent material having a greenish tinge. Rumen lesions are characterized by well defined, yellow, raised foci of necrosis. These extend deep into the rumen wall and can perforate, leading to peritonitis, or infection of the abdominal cavity (10).


Diagnosis

Clinical signs and history are usually sufficient to establish a diagnosis. The organism is difficult to grow, making culture and isolation difficult without special culture swabs and growth medium. Identification of the organism in lesions can be made with a flourescent antibody test (7). There is also a blood test (ELISA) for the detection of serum antibodies to F. necrophorum in sheep and cattle (2). However, these tests may not be presently available to all pathology laboratories.


Treatment

Early detection of necrobacillosis is important if the disease is to be treated. The long term results of treatment are not encouraging. Affected animals should be isolated from healthy animals. Feeding and drinking areas and working facilities should be cleaned and disinfected to prevent spread of the organism. Antibiotics are indicated for therapy. Although, like most drugs, they are not currently licensed for use in deer. Procaine penicillin is likely most effective with tetracyclines and sulfonamides being used as well. Where possible abscesses should be drained and flushed to remove debris and toxins. Debris and pus from the lesion should not be allowed to contaminate the treatment area. Collect and incinerate the material in a plastic bag. Amputation of a toe may be required in severe cases of foot rot where there is bone and joint involvement.


Prevention

As with most diseases, prevention is much more rewarding than treatment. Good management practices form a large part of any control or prevention program.

* Stress from overcrowding, social or hierarchy instability, inappropriate mixing of sexes and ages, or poor animal handling technique should be minimized.
* Good general hygiene should be practised with attention paid to control of excessive fecal contamination of paddocks, holding and handling facilities, and feeding equipment. Hay offered on the ground will become contaminated with urine and feces.
* Do not use preventative antibiotics without a diagnosis or good evidence of infection. In the long term, more problems will be created than will be prevented.
* Food structure (coarseness) is probably not as important as the nutritional quality of food. Poor quality food decreases resistance to disease in general.. There is some evidence that mucosal skin integrity depends on adequate vitamin A and C levels (4). Deficiency of these vitamins may predispose animals to necrobacillosis infection by making invasion easier.
* The type of soil underfoot may play a role in the persistence and transmission of F. necrophorum. Clay and other water retaining types of soil are thought to support bacterial life better than well drained sandy soils (4). Whatever the soil type, avoid poorly drained paddocks and moist areas to raise deer.



Vaccination

Vaccination will never replace good management practices. However when faced with persistent disease vaccination may be an option. There is no commercial vaccine licensed for prevention of necrobacillosis in deer but variable results have been observed with Fusogard™ (Novartis). Fusogard™ is a pure F. necrophorum bacterin designed to prevent footrot and liver abscesses in cattle. Some deer producers claim to have achieved good protective results and others have been disappointed. Its usefulness in deer species has never been scientifically established.

Because necrobacillosis is most often a mixed bacterial infection (F. necrophorum plus others), it may be that every farm outbreak involves a unique combination of bacteria, similar but different from each other. The use of "autogenous" vaccines may therefore hold more promise. Autogenous bacterins are made up separately for each infected farm from bacteria derived from infections on that particular premises. (Auto genous = self generated)

Animals are inoculated with a product made up from bacteria obtained from lesions on that farm, creating a more specific and effective immunity to the necrobacillosis organisms. Autogenous vaccines have been used to treat necrobacillosis in sick animals as well as prevent disease in healthy ones. Both uses have not been adequately tested in white-tailed deer and further investigation is needed to determine their usefulness.

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

John Swank, We don't think it is sore mouth. Sore mouth can be identified by the shape of the scab on the lesion. Sore mouth scabs are concave in shape, these lesions are convex in shape.

[John Swank]

John Swank, We don't think it is sore mouth. Sore mouth can be identified by the shape of the scab on the lesion. Sore mouth scabs are concave in shape, these lesions are convex in shape.

Atta boy, Isaac.... You are all over this one. :D

Keep up the good work.


John

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

Thanks again to all who helped today. Thank you Ross (wooden Acres) By meeting Dawn and sharing Fusoguard we were able to treat all but one bottle feed fawn. Be assured if you need us to walk on hot coals for you just ask. As we learn we will share. -Scott & Isaac Follett

[Wooden acres]

Scott and Isaac I have more coming in on TUESDAY as I've had others ask for it too . If you need any more just let me know before Monday and I'll get as much as you need . I'm sorry that bottle wasn't completely full as it will treat 50 fawns per bottle . We can order on Monday and have it Tuesday if you need some . Your very welcome and I thank you for all the info and seminars you hold for us !!

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Does anyone have experience using it on Whitetail deer....Will that help cure them or just a preventitive?
I give it but never had a problem...

[ddwhitetails]

I give the fawns Fusogaurd at 2 weeks and again at 4 weeks....I would assume it is a preventitive unless you are experiecing problems and then it helps to cure the problem...this would be my guess.......I give it because i am following the advice of a farmer whom I respect and has raised a lot of fawns. Now I'm learning just how important it is to give the fusogaurd.......I know the fusogaurd is to help protect against lumpy jaw......is this what the fawn in the above post is experiencing???

[Robbie]

We vaccinate with Fuso, but I don't think you should think of it as a treatment. All vaccines will say on the label to administer only to healthy animals. Think about getting a flu shot - they give you a little bit of the bug so that your body can build a natural immunity. If you already have the flu, getting the shot can make you way more sick. Tetracyclines are the common treatment for these strains of bacterias, then once the animal is healthy, definitely vaccinate.

[Scott Heinrich]

Since you had the fawns isolated and your nipples clean don't forget to consider alergic reaction to the nipple. Latex alergies occur in deer as well as humans, so if you are using latex nipples, consider changing to buna or nitrile. Not suggesting this is the cause, just pointing out that sometimes it is not bacterial that causes issues like this.

[Robbie]

Just remembered something that my goat expert told me - staff can present in little ant bite looking blisters, then spread. Staff is everywhere, even if you are super crazy clean in your procedures.

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

Scott and Isaac I have more coming in on TUESDAY as I've had others ask for it too . If you need any more just let me know before Monday and I'll get as much as you need . I'm sorry that bottle wasn't completely full as it will treat 50 fawns per bottle . We can order on Monday and have it Tuesday if you need some . Your very welcome and I thank you for all the info and seminars you hold for us !!
We have 500 shots coming in on Monday. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!!:D:D:D
Robbie, Thank you for your advice how do we treat for staff? Randy is also looking at tetracycline. I understand that you should not give the fusoguard to sick fawns.
Scott Heinrich, I never thought of the fawns being allergic to latex gloves or nipples. We will look into that as soon as possible!!!

[Robbie]

I believe penicillin is a treatment for staph. Of course, it will depend on the strain, and suseptibilities....and if that is even what your fawns have. However, penicillin is such a good broad spectrum drug, you probably can't go wrong with it until you get a diagnosis.

Tetracyclines and Peniciliin do not mix. They counter the way each other works, and nullify each others effects. So, pick one or the other.

[Robbie]

Milk can also impede the effects of tetracyclines, so if you must use it on a bottle fawn, either administer between feedins so that digestion has already occurred, or feed water for a feeding so that the drug can get metabolized into the system.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Issac did the Vet Culture it?
How many fawns has it happened to?
What are you cleaning the nipples with?

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

Thank you Robbie, for the Explanation and the proticall. I will share it with the Applecreek Team.
PaintedMeadowsBJs, yes the vet did a culture test on friday by squeezing puss out of the cheek. We should have results by Monday!
It has happened to five fawns that we have quarantined.
We clean our bottles and nipples first with soap, then with tectral, and last with water to rinse. And then a high pressure beer bottle rinse. Dr. Todd from MI. called today and recommended us storing the clean bottles in the freezer.
Being my father was in the food business for so many years he puts high importance on cleanliness.

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

I was just wondering if it were an allergic reaction to the bottle cleaner....
Because I know you guys aren't cutting corners and trying very hard, but it seems to me of a reaction to something more than a disease... but that is just a guess from states away without seeing.
Were they all in the same area/pen/ ...What connection do they all have?

[Wooden acres]

Hey we may never quite know what the problem is but without the results from the vet I'd think you'd want to cover all bases . It could be an allergic reaction to something and I'm assuming AppleCreek will try something a bit different with cleaning of bottles and nipples and maybe even change nipples if that could be the problem . The Fusogaurd may or may not help but it surely can't hurt either . Is it a treatment, I wouldn't rely on it for that . Is it a good vaccine to at least help or insure against future outbreaks , gosh I'd think so . I'm thinking the thing they all have in common is the ground . They're all on the same ground when born whether in the same pens or people bringing in the bacteria from one pen to the other on their shoe's or things like that but I'm thinking it's in the ground and that's how they're contacting it . If you look close at the last paragraph in Isaac's post on necrobacillosis you'll see the vaccines have been used to help treat outbreaks and again it surely wouldn't hurt . I'm thinking for those with the sores I'd hit them hard with something . My first choice would be penicillin and streptomycin covering both gram negitive as well as gram positive organisms . Tetracyline may be good too , but I just hate those drugs that burn or sting that hard on small critters. Heck Draxxin might work well too ! Maybe sulfamerazine or sulfamethazine would work for treating fusobacterium too .What ever it is I sure hope all bases are covered and it doesn't continue , no one needs crap like that going on . Good Luck AppleCreek hope all goes well . Just a thought ..

[PaintedMeadowsBJs]

Hang in there ...
The not knowing is the worst...We all care for these critters so much when they are counting on us ...Sometimes it really sucks not knowing how to help...

[allenb]

Good luck Apple Creek, I really enjoy Isaac's posts. I have learned from them, and really look forward to them. The size of your operation amazes me. I have 12 on the bottle at this time and thats about all this ole Mountaineer wants. I know you will get this problem figured out. Like I said, Good luck. We're pulling for ya. Allen

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

Thanks for all the encouragement today still only 5 with problem no new cases one of the five looking better. Will post results soon as we hear from the vet.:););):D:o:rolleyes::cool:

[Randy@AppleCreek]

Hey. Just an update on where we are with the fawns with infected mouths.

As Isaac mentioned before, we took a culture of the pustuled lesions last Friday and the vet sent it right in along with a blood collection. We were told we would have the results back by Monday.

In the meantime, we're treating with 2cc SQ of penicillin as our vet suggested. Thanks to Wooden Acres, we vaccinated 47 hd of our bottle fawns Friday with Fusoguard and have a shipment of the stuff coming in on Monday when the rest of the bottle babies will be vaccinated as well. This is only a temporary step though, until we can identify exactly what the heck we're dealing with. We've found no sign of the disease out in the fawning pens as yet, but are keeping a sharp eye out. When we do know the disease we're dealing with and the strain, we will then have an autogenus vaccine made up for our particular problem. If the culture comes back as a fusobacteria, we will continue to vaccinate with Fusoguard for 28 days since it takes 28 days to make up the new vaccine. I know Fusoguard some from the sheep world and know it only covers about 13 strains of Fusobacieria. There are many more out there. If our strain comes back as one covered by Fusoguard, then we're in luck. If not, we'll go for the custom-made vaccine.

One thought from Robbie, about our problem being a staph. That is a very good possibility we had not considered. Thanks for opening our eyes to that possibility.

As for the infected fawns, they as feeling no adverse affects to this disease. Their appetites are good, and they're up and bucking all over the place. I should mention that the fawn we too to the vet, and had her lip smashed to get the pus out for the culture had her feelings hurt. Other than that she acts great.

Will keep you posted. -Randy

[CurtisLloyd]

As I told Scott when I talked to him on the phone we take samples of the cases of necro we have before we administer anitbiotics, we use a sterile swab and then store it in the freezer untill we need the next batch, this gives us a farm specific vaccine that has the current pathogens on the farm. I belive that in making the vaccine for different farms the have found 30+ diff strains of the bacteria. Dr. Manuel Chirino at the University of Saskatchewan (Boo Huskies, York Lions RULE)is our guy but I'm sure there would be others at other big Vet. and agriculture schools. I was told by Manuel that the best samples are taken from the lining of the lesion not from the puss , most of the bacteria in the puss is dead. For example, if you have a lump on the outside of the jaw and you lance it to drain it , flush it with sterilized water ( 1 gallon boiled for 10 min. add 1 tsp. unscented bleach at 5 min.) I have a squeeze bottle with a flex neoprene hose. Take your sample from the lining of the lump, using a sterile swab, rub with some pressure with the side of the lump between your finger and the swab trying to get some skin cells to sluff off on to the swab will give you a better sample. After all visible traces of infection are gone I rince the pocket with betadine ,work the edges rubbing them to loosen any goobers ( scientific term), keep flushing with betadine until clean, medicate.... on cases where I have to cut and flush I now prefer Draxxin, and a long acting antibiotic in combination.

[Robbie]

Randy - I hope it isn't, but if it turns out to be, I am glad that I brought it to your attention. Good luck.

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

The fawns are all getting better!!! Thank you all for the help:D:D:D
There were no other out-breaks
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3629631257_6f6849d191_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3630444198_9266dae4f8_o.jpg

[TallTines]

Isaac,

What did you guys end up finding out? What was causing this?

[applecreek_joe]

Currently we are still waiting for the culture to come back, but the swelling and the white puss pockets are going down....Im sure Isaac will keep you posted. We are grateful for all the information and advice we received.

[Isaac@AppleCreek]

We talked to the vet today and they are still growing out the culture in a incubator. Should know the cause in few days .Fuso Guard and penicillian seemed to be great help.

[Randy@AppleCreek]

By the way, all of our infected fawns are doing great. Most of the pustules are completely gone and the fawns are happy. We'll still quarentine them for another 2 weeks just to make sure.

Well, the results of our culture came back. The cause of our problem was a Pasteurella bacteria. It was listed as a "rare gram negative bacillus". The EHD test was negative, though there were no symptoms of EHD. Blood tests won't be back for a couple of days yet. Luckily the infective agent was not a Fusobacteria, not a Staph infection and not Soremouth. Shunked us all on that one. (We did find that Cervids do get Soremouth though!)

Most of us know Pasteurella from pneumonia. It resides in the lungs waiting for the immune system to become compromised and then attacks. It is usually a very opportunistic bacteria. The question is, how did this bacteria from the lungs get a start in the mouth and on the outside of the nose and muzzle of our bottle fed fawns? We know that these fawns are cutting teeth, but there were no lesions around the wounds from arupting (sp?) teeth. Only up high in the inside of the lip and out on the muzzle. We're still ruminating on that one.

The report did say that the culture was resistant to Penicillin, Sulfas (Albon) and tetracycline (Tetradura & LA200). These are exactily the antibiotics I would have counted on since they are good against gram positive and negative diseases. The report did say that Ceftiofurs, (Naxcel, Exceede (sp?)) would work very well. Learned something on that one. Chuck one more into the old bag of tricks eh?

Thanks for all your help. You helped save our bacon.

Call us anytime if we can ever be of service.

- Randy Gottfredson

[ZZ Whitetails]

Good job Apple Creek, Randy you called for the pen. and again you were right on! Goes to show ya that some of the old "FADING" drugs are still useful. Pen. has been around a long time and has been replaced by the newer hot rod drugs but in my opinion is still very useful! ZZ

[Wooden acres]

Yikes ,when I think of Pasturella I'm thinking respiratory viruse , shipping fever , lots of tranportation movement among critters , big weather changes , stock yards and crap like that . Hey even if it's a strain resistant to penicillin you gained much needed ground on it and it's good sometimes to switch every 3 to 4 days on meds anyway . Gosh we learn something new every day don't we ? Just a thought .